[Complete] The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition

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The Black Sword
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by The Black Sword »

I agree with the tentacles regarding round lengths. No reason to give first round 3 weeks and finals only 1. IIRC the previous TGT finals had massive observer attendance. Wesnoth tournaments do seem to suffer a drop of interest as they progress but TGT has not had many problems in this regard I think.

I was nostalgically reading through the old threads there and there were some organisational issues that came up.

1.The ritual Terra Dwelve argument.
Faello, at the end of TGT3:
On the new maps front; Terra Dwelve.
Seriously, I think we heard a fair amount of criticism of the current map set during the tournament and I haven't heard of any issues with Terra Dwelve. I really feel it deserves to be played.


I'm still not a big fan of it, but TGT needs more maps and this one is official, thus I'd have nothing against puttig it on the map list. More or less, map list is something to be discussed before the next TGT too.
(first bit is me btw). Any chance of removing the opponent permission for this map?

2. In the last 2 TGTs we had in excess of 16 teams, resulting in first come, first served.
-A Pre-qualifying round for non-veteran teams was suggested. Obviously need to see if the demand is the same this time round anyway.

3. For people knocked out in the 1st round, TGT can be quite short.
-One of the cool points for TGT is the brutal knock-out system but if there was a way to ensure everyone had 2 games, it'd be worth it I think. Any solution would lengthen the tournament, but for 50% of the players to get double the no. of games, that would be nice.

Possible suggestion for 2&3:
Some sort of accelerated back door system. For example, suppose we have 20 teams with 10 winners and 10 losers after the first round. Then 5 winners after the second round. The first round losers could be paired up and play a single game, not best of 3, to give another 5 players. 1 of these goes through as a wild card, the other 4 play another single game to give another 2 players, making up the 8 of the quarter finals.

Good to see both of the Nerd's nemesis' joined up. :twisted:
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grzywacz
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by grzywacz »

The Black Sword wrote:Any chance of removing the opponent permission for this map?
I've been against it previously and I wouldn't be happy with it now, either. These 2vs2 games are already quite long and this map is way bigger (and gives more starting gold) than any other in the base set... :augh:
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Dunno
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by Dunno »

The Black Sword wrote:I agree with the tentacles regarding round lengths. No reason to give first round 3 weeks and finals only 1. IIRC the previous TGT finals had massive observer attendance. Wesnoth tournaments do seem to suffer a drop of interest as they progress but TGT has not had many problems in this regard I think.
I have been talking about this with alpha1 and Dauntless (in the dark corridors of the TGT administration area) and I think we all have to retreat to the bona fides rule as for the length of finals. All we can do is encourage finalists to hurry up I guess :?
I was nostalgically reading through the old threads there and there were some organisational issues that came up.
Me too, I had quite a laugh :lol2:
1.The ritual Terra Dwelve argument.
Ok I guess we can make this one official this tournament. If Faello himself agreed, there's not much I can say against it :wink:
But it can be played without opponents' permission only in the first round.
2. In the last 2 TGTs we had in excess of 16 teams, resulting in first come, first served.
-A Pre-qualifying round for non-veteran teams was suggested. Obviously need to see if the demand is the same this time round anyway.
Exactly. And besides, I can only guess how many vets are still around, this edition may "produce" a new group of veterans and we might see 24 teams in the next edition.
To everyone asking me about the 24 team match-up (and their other original ideas for the noob-round) over and over again: Next edition guys! This decision is final. TGT hasn't been around for 2 years and a lot of things could have changed. We don't know how many teams will sign up this time, how many veterans will come back to life, hell, until recently I didn't even know if I was going to administer this edition by myself. Let's leave experiments for the next edition, and see how this one goes first.
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anoel
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by anoel »

i would like to participate together with aThecret. our team name will be "slackers on line". strictly according to our team name our goal is to drop out first round while having fun. :whistle:
aThecret
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by aThecret »

anoel wrote:i would like to participate together with aThecret. our team name will be "slackers on line". strictly according to our team name our goal is to drop out first round while having fun. :whistle:
don't tell them our secret plans :doh:
and yah we looking forward to play in this tournament :)
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Dunno
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by Dunno »

You're in :) I'm glad to see how fast the team lists is filling up.

Also, I've updated the rules concerning map list and rounds time. Turns out the small time amount was a misunderstanding and a leftover from previous editions.
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TheEmptyLord
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by TheEmptyLord »

Hey there :)

abhijit and I are planning to play a match together to see if we want to team. Assuming we do, we will be joining. (Just wanted to post this so you could hold a spot for us :) One of us will post again if we want to team with a formal request and team name. Thanks a lot!
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Dunno
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by Dunno »

Ok, I reserved a spot for you. Remember that it becomes vacant in 72 hours if you don't sign up :)

Breaking News: tekelili is going to code an opening ceremony once again! This means that every team should choose it's avatar unit (from mainline set, only lvl1s and lvl0s) or it will get a random unit. Veterans will get its previous avatar by default. If you don't know what I'm talking about, LINK! to the live commentary by neki. Oooh I'm getting excited about his :D
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Ondrew
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by Ondrew »

Hi there all the Wesnoth zealots :twisted:

I would like to register a team to participate in this great event once again.

Name: Young Yippies
Teammate: Naovy
Timezone: GMT +1 (both of us)

We will looking forward to play and to watch the others clashing their weapons in the upcoming battles! 8)
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Dunno
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by Dunno »

Suddenly all spots have been reserved! :shock:
Don't worry though, I doubt that there will be enough veterans to fill up all the reserved spots. Under these circumstances, reservations for the veterans expire on August 11 (previously August 18). Please understand that we would still like to give the veterans as much time as possible. Of course, you can still register in a temporary reserve list that will automatically fill any vacant spot, should it appear.
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NanRage
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by NanRage »

Team name: Pffffff F.C.
Teammate's name: Danniel_BR
My timezone: +1
My teammate's timezone:-6

[/color][/b]
That is if still slot free to join ofc, thanks in advance, salut.
Last edited by 8680 on August 2nd, 2013, 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged double post [Posting Guidelines §1f].
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Blop
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by Blop »

Dunno wrote:Ok, I reserved a spot for you. Remember that it becomes vacant in 72 hours if you don't sign up :)

Breaking News: tekelili is going to code an opening ceremony once again! This means that every team should choose it's avatar unit (from mainline set, only lvl1s and lvl0s) or it will get a random unit. Veterans will get its previous avatar by default. If you don't know what I'm talking about, LINK! to the live commentary by neki. Oooh I'm getting excited about his :D
Argh, why is the burning wose not a mainline unit :(

It's pretty obvious what our avatar will be though :P
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bumbadadabum
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by bumbadadabum »

AI0867 and I would like to sign up as reserves for TGT.

Team name pending
Members: AI0867 and bumbadadabum
Timezone: GMT+1
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tekelili
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by tekelili »

Smell of blood rised me from my ethernal dream. I walked out of my grave and after feed my self with some lesser beings of a near village, I am ready for the greatest, the epic, the real Wesnoth tournament: The Grand Tag

Team: Nerds R US
Members: The Black Sword & tekelili
GMT+1

As always my ethernal gratitude to TGT organizer. Just an idea Dunno: attach replays of games from last tgt editions on 1st post.

About avatars for ceremony, tgt3 crew and me decided that lvl2 units could be chosen only for veterans. Spagetti Bolognese and Young Yippies become veterans in this edition and their avatars from TGT3 will be upgadred to lvl2 if they dont say anything against it (it is not mandatory, Tentacles will be veterans also, and I guess they are happy with their lvl1 avatar). Noob Leavers can chose any lvl0, lvl1 or lvl2 unit as avatar, as they are veterans.

TGT3 open ceremony was the first one even made in Wesnoth. Was developed in few time and all people involved in development learned during working on it. I feel this one will be more awesome and hope all of you will enjoy it.
grzywacz wrote:
The Black Sword wrote:Any chance of removing the opponent permission for this map?
I've been against it previously and I wouldn't be happy with it now, either. These 2vs2 games are already quite long and this map is way bigger (and gives more starting gold) than any other in the base set... :augh:
Not really trying to convince anyone, but i remember my game in Terra Dwelve like not too long. I remeber games in defensive maps like quite longer. Imo size of map is not always related to game duration.
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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neki
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Re: The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition (Sign up now

Post by neki »

Hi, guys!

From my past experience, this tournament takes forever and it's very sparse in action, a very socialist experience where we understand and care about everybody, except the viewers. The funny thing is not only the viewers suffer, but also the active players, whose time is wasted.

Therefore, I have worked on a set of rules that should help regulate most of the annoying situations which kill the action and the fun in this tournament. They may seem a bit harsh and different, but as Albert Einstein once said: “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”. We have to try something different, if we ever hope to improve this tournament.

My rule proposal is written below. Please do comment on it:

MATCH SCHEDULING

In the past, the TGT tournament has dragged on and on with no action taking place, slowly but steadily extinguishing the enthusiasm of the crowd of spectators. This was because of terrible match scheduling. The organizers have learned from past experience and rules will be enforced this time, ensuring a dynamic vieweing experience and an action packed autumn. The match scheduling set of rules is split in three sections: <<Rules>>, <<Exceptions>> and <<No exceptions possible>>. Please note there cannot and will never be exceptions to <<No exceptions possible>>!!! And please do not join the tournament if you have a busy schedule and will always fall into the <<Exceptions>> category. For blury and extraordinary situations not adressed in this text, the referees and the organizing comittee will tend to rule in favour of those who follow the <<Rules>>, not the <<Exceptions>>. We do take MATCH SCHEDULING seriously

<<Rules>>

Once a <<round>> is declared <<started>> (Rounds can only start on Moday and have 3 matches each), each group of 4 players involved has <<72 hours>> to <<schedule>> and <<announce>> their first <<match>>. The <<match>> is only considered <<announced>> if a match announcing post is made on the official <<forum>> no later than <<12 hours before>> the match.

The <<first match>> cannot be scheduled for a date later than <<10 days>> (7 days + 72 hours) after the start of the round. The second match cannot be scheduled for a date later than <<17 days>> (14 days + 72 hours) after the start of the round. The third match cannot be scheduled for a date later than <<21 days>> (21 days) after the start of the round.

All matches within the 4 player group must finish no later than <<24 days>> (21 days + 72 hours) after the start of the round.

Since scheduling is a difficult task and the crowd wants to see action after waiting so much for a match, each scheduled match session must be at least 3 hours. After 3 hours the match can be saved and each team has the right to demand a save.

If at least a Match 1 session (3 hours) has been played and teams are unable to schedule the continuation before the 10 days (7 days + 72 hours) deadline, a SHOWDOWN is declared { 13 days into the round (Saturday) at [ 5pm + (Team1 GMT + Team2 GMT) / 2 ] }, where Team1 GMT is the average GMT of team 1 and Team 2 GMT is the average GMT of team 2.

Same rules for a played but not finished Match 2 or Match 3 session. SHOWDOWN for round 2 is declared {20 days into the round (Saturday) at [ 5pm + (Team1 GMT + Team2 GMT) / 2 ] }. SHOWDOWN for round 3 is declared {27 days into the round (Saturday) at [ 5pm + (Team1 GMT + Team2 GMT) / 2 ] }.

Please note that SHOWDOWN is an extraordinary situation and can only occur after at least one session of the match has been played and only if the organizer considers both teams are trying hard and frankly to organize another match session but are unable to. SHOWDOWN is necessary to finish matchs and rounds on time.

SHOWDOWN rules: SHOWDOWN time is not negotiable, the rule to set the time is clear. If no players show for SHOWDOWN, the organizer will terminate the match and assign the victory. If no players from Team 1 show up and at least one player from Team 2 shows up, victory automatically goes to team B (same for reverse situation). If at least one player from each team shows up, they are free to play as they wish (even one of them controlling both his team sides) and continue the battle from the last save. The game goes on until one side wins, or the other side has to disconnect completely (no team representative remaining) due to real life duties.

With SHOWDOWN, we are always sure that matches end no later than: 13, 20, 27 days into the round and that a round doesn't last more than 4 weeks. And we always get a bloody fight for the viewers to end a round, not boring concedes because of lack of communication between teammates.

If all matches finished, Rounds can last shorter than 4 weeks, but can only start on a Monday.

<<Exceptions>>

Suppose a match is <<scheduled>>, <<announced>>, but some people do not show up. Nobody shows up: both teams are given a DQ warning. At the second DQ warning received, a team is disqualified. At least somebody from team 1 shows up, nobody from team 2 shows up: match victory goes to team 1 and team 2 gets a DQ warning. (same for reverse situation).

Only one player from each team shows up: The absent players receive a NO SHOW and are banned from that particular round. Please note that that DQ is a team attribute, while a NO SHOW is an individual attribute. At 2 NO SHOWS a player is disqualified from the tournament and so is his team. Please note that a team can have 2 NO SHOWS if they are distributed one to each player. Being banned from that round, the matches in that round will continue only between the two non-banned players (each controlling 2 sides).

Only one player from one team shows up, while the other team fully shows up. The missing player gets a NO SHOW and gets banned from that round. The full team gets FREE HAND for that round: they can either play both, or only one of them controlling two sides, without getting NO SHOWS. However, if they both fail to show for a future match, they will lose the match and get a DQ warning.

The NO SHOW exception is useful for when somebody experiences an emergency or a holiday (a long period of continuous absence - aka one full round). The NO SHOW players gets banned from the round, which can be a blessing in disguise - the missing player can continue his absence without getting disqualified. However, for SHOWDOWNs it can be brutal. Since the other team can take turns between each other to fight only one guy, which will run out of real life time twice as fast. These rules and exception will make us a dynamic tournament and will help us keep up with our scheduling promises to the viewers.

<<No exceptions possible>>

A match that has not been <<announced>> (12 hours before) cannot and will not be considered - it just never took place, as far as we are concerned! Respect the viewers!

A match session needs to be scheduled within the deadline! If no match session is scheduled, that match will be terminated and victory will be assigned by the organizers.

If a match session has been scheduled, played out (3 hours) but has not been finised by the scheduling deadline of that match, a SHOWDOWN cannot be avoided, unless a team is clearly trying to avoid a fight and unethically is dragging setting a time for the continuation. In this last case, the unethical team can be disqualified or the match directly given to the other team.

No match session can be shorter than 3 hours! Either all 4 players play continuously for 3 hours or changes can occur as described in the <<Exceptions>> section. If the match stops in less than 3 hours (for example a save occurs after less than 3 hours), the match is terminated immediately and victory will be assigned to one team by the organizers in less than 48 hours after the termination. It's either this or a long, boring, 7 months "tournament".
Last edited by neki on August 4th, 2013, 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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