[Complete] The Grand Tag! 2v2 Tournament - 4th edition

[TheBlackThunderX9]

Neki, the only reason we have not scheduled it yet is because Bella said to me that she would be on some kind of vacation from 6th to 13th of September. That aside, we still have 17 days. There is no need to get frustrated over that kind of stuff.

[TheEmptyLord]

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't we almost one week into the round and only half of the teams have scheduled games ?

While not optimal, that doesn't really seem that bad? Half the teams have scheduled and 2/3rds of the time is left to go. It is the first week of the first round: relax.

Giving a 48 hour time limit for all of the players to respond seems not only shortsighted, but plain stupid. Are you trying to ruin the tournament? If they are aware that they have 2 weeks left to plan and play a game, and perhaps real life commitments for some of the time in between, you think it is a good idea to go behind there back, change the rules, and kick them out? I could understand that sort of ultimatum a day or two from the end of the first round, but with two weeks to go?

Also, while I could be wrong, I don't think you are authorized to make that ultimatum, and when most of those players don't respond in 2 days (because they have no reason to believe the rules set out would suddenly change on them) you can be sure that they won't just be kicked out.

I'm not saying that players shouldn't start scheduling, and I'm not really trying to be rude, but to be perfectly honest you seem very selfish neki. You have a little justification for it, but hell, doesn't everyone? If you want to gloat over your wins, rub it in others faces, etc: alright, I can put up with that in the name of friendly competition, but when you start handing out ultimatums and judgement and insults over and over, I think something needs to be said.

Just my two cents: feel free to insult me if it makes you feel better

P.S. On a side note, what do you expect by giving an ultimatum to nani and Dunno? -.-

[alpha1]

P.S. On a side note, what do you expect by giving an ultimatum to nani and Dunno? -.-

Haha that's hillarious Ok Dunno, I do hope you will answer in time otherwise you are being kicked and Ethelbert will be paired up with ai for the rest of the tournament. I'm sorry but dura lex sed lex... :<

Now seriously, the only people who have the right to set ultimatums of any sort are Dunno and when he is not there me. The extent of referees tasks and authority has been clearly stated in Dunno's openning post (referee's duties right below Important News) and as far as i know nothing changed since the time he posted it

[Dunno]

Ok now this is getting annoying. Neki, please calm down already. We (admins) are doing a lot of work behind-the-scenes, some teams are kind enough to forward their pms to me or Daunt or alpha so we've got this covered. Not only all teams are active (more or less) but we have a conflict because of my hasty decision to replace noob-killer's team, and that decision was indirectly encouraged by you and your baseless complaints. Round 1 has always been, and always will be a very problematic and unsure period of The Grand Tag. However, experience shows that it's worth it to wait for the next rounds that bring even more exciting games. So instead of stressing everyone around, relax, sit back and find something else to do while you wait for the games.

Just in case someone's confused:
Nobody is getting disqualified (yet). Move along, people.

Thanks,
Dunno

[forbiddian]

I'm just an observer to the tournament, but I'm mad enough about Neki's behavior to make a long post. I can't imagine what it must be like to play in this fun event against him.

No rule set known to man can stop neki from playing his Wesnoth games as soon as he pleases! So gear up for some brutal Wesnoth this Sunday, mortals!

15:00 London time, Sunday, 8th of September, team RNG will have developers for lunch!

So NEKI suggests the time, admitting that he doesn't care about the rules and he'll trample them to do so.

Later, there are some scheduling problems with playing the game before the official start date. Neki's response:

Well, there u have it. Bumba not being able to play a planned match. I canceled my real life plans for this game and there you have it. So, what now ? As a spectator, I am deeply upset. As a player, I am deeply upset about this and I do not wish to grant Bumba a pardon. As a referee I recomend that his teammate (AI) fill in for him and the match should be played).

As an aside: How did he "cancel real life plans" when he picked the time? That sounds really stupid to me. Anyway, TO decides to just reschedule the game to a time that fits within the rules. This is the correct decision. Neki's response:

Lol at this "tournament", just LOL. If u had anything against us playing before the "official" date, u should have said something when the game was announced or as as soon as u returned, so please you give me a break with that argument.

Pretty shameful sportsmanship for a fun tournament. For the record, these are from the official rules (which really aren't that long -- as an observer, I took the 2 minutes required to read them), they had every right to reschedule:

- Each team has a right to one reschedule per round and one warning per tournament.
-- Reschedule: postponing a match at least 4h before its original starting time.

Thankfully, the opponent fixed his computer and things worked out.

Also, out of curiosity, can we play against both our potential opponents in September in anticipation of myself being unavailable in October?

This is pretty much identical to what Neki had demanded earlier.

I do not think you can actually do that, grzywacz. I for one would be against, no matter how unexpected and funny the idea is.

He just said, two posts ago, that "no rules can stop him" from playing his match early. Now he's denying other people the same right. Shameful.

RNG won vs Name Pending . Well, for the sake of accuracy, we demolished them.

Needless to say teams RNG and Name Pending already finished their matches before the round even started.

The game fails to incentivize new players to become masterful at it, I am afraid.

Yeah, it must be "the game".

I know every small community has people like neki, who are... let's say... extremely unpleasant to everyone around them. I've been a tournament organizer in other events, and it's difficult to ban a player. That being said, this guy is extremely toxic. Really everyone else is playing in good faith and having fun, but I would imagine it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to play against this guy and have fun. He's shown a long history of insulting people for no reason, bringing up rules when they're convenient, and ignoring rules or even deriding them if they're not. He's insulted tournament organizers for following rules, and he's insulted tournament organizers for letting niggling rules slide in favor of everyone having a good time, even as he's sidestepped rules himself. Also, when he wins, he makes multiple unnecessary posts to mock the losing team (as well as taunting them in game). Now he's completely overstepping his bounds with his recent posts.

He was called out for his bad behavior here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 35#p559372

Here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 35#p559373

Here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 50#p559447

Here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 50#p559455

Actually, let's be honest: linking all these posts is an exercise in futility. Pretty much every post after this someone tells him to calm down, or to stop insulting people, or to give people a break, and there are several official modtext warnings directed at him.

rules are never perfect, thus bona fides (good will) should be visible in team behaviour, if the team will find some part of the rules not precise, malignant behaviour will be punished by official warning. If the team will still act in malignant way, it can be banned.

It's up to the tournament organizer what to do, but I want people to know that even as a casual observer, I have lost almost all interest in following this event because of his behavior. And I'm upset enough about it to make this high-effort post. His shows absolutely no signs of slowing down. If anything, he's becoming more reckless with his bullying. It's sad that people can't play nice, but he's proven he needs official intervention to change.

[Blop]

Please, neki, take this post as a sign, calm down and step back a bit.
Insulting people will turn observers and new players away from this tournament, which you allegedly don't want.

By the way, I'm wondering who you mean by "new players". I fail to recognize the missing urge of new players to become masterful at this game.

[Dauntless]

**important post follows**

Hello guys,
please let me shortly react to the situation development in the recent posts until Dunno can make an official Main admin post.

A lot of recent posts have been focused around neki and his posts, which repeatedly insult other people. The situation is known to the TGT Crew and it is being dealt with now.

Dunno will make an official statement on this matters soon. For the time being, I would like to assure all the players and spectators that the opinions of neki and the official TGT Crew differ significantly and that any demands or threats he has made are not in any way binding. Furthermore, from the vice-admin position, I am currently suspening neki from his referree duties until the situation is settled.

On behalf of the TGT Crew, I would like to apologize for nekis behaviour and I hope that his posts do not dissuade you from following the TGT. I would also like to thank the other people for stepping up and supporting their colleagues.

For the TGT Crew

Dauntless

P.S.: The last posts were centered around the team inactivity criticized by neki. While neki has no authority to judge this and definitely not in the way he did so, keeping the schedule is really an issue. I would care to disagree with the posts above, that there is stil time enough to arrange the games. As main admin of last TGT, I know that the time is difficult to keep. The organizational week was installed for teams to organize the dates of matches. SOme games can drag out long, some players might go on vacation some time etc. so playing the games out takes its time. I, personally, find the fact that half of the teams have not yet set a date alarming as well as neki does.

THe tournament is for fun so there should be no rush to play the games out. But, the TGT is for players as well as for observers. It is very difficult to keep track of a tournament that plays one game a week. Last edition, the first round games had more viewers than the Grand Finals, simply because the obs lost interest during the month of slow progress. So, for the sake of having an interesting and populated grand finals (and amazing new final ceremony)I would like to encourage players to speed up the game setting.

Thank you

[neki]

1. I am not insulting anybody. I am criticizing. My language is civilized.

2. My criticizing is based on facts. I seldom direct critique at particular people. I address concrete facts like lazyness to schedule, imaginary teams, etc.

3. Every single one of my TGT posts is directed at improving the tournament for viewers and players by selfsustaining letter of law.

4. I have a fulfilling and active real life and for fun I play an actual game, so I do not need Wesnoth for my personal enjoyment.

5. I am here to ensure this "tournament" is an actual tournament and respects its schedule and viewers.

6. I will happily leave and probably will be the case after a round lasts more than 4 weeks.

7. Peace is in fact nani and most likely he will not reply to this post since he is gone with nani.

8. I don't really care if I am a referee or not, TGT crew or not.

9. The fact that my efforts are not popular proves that this tournament is in fact a big social barbecue party, which is nice, but do not call it a tournament.

10. Neki out

[alpha1]

Ariu - How do u plan to meet the 3 weeks round deadline ? Will u also go on holiday after he returns ? Would u play vs. double peace to meet the round deadline ? (not up to them if you and the organizers agree and it's the only way to meet the round deadline)

7. Peace is in fact nani and most likely he will not reply to this post since he is gone with nani.

Ah now I understand why you were asking about playing against "double peace"! Well let me assure you: nani and peace are in fact two different players. I would normally ask people who make such accusations for proofs, because it's a 2vs2 tournament and a team consisting of only one player would be disqualified etc. but at this point really...

[Gambit]

Just a reminder that if this thread can't be kept civil, you'll all be facing a higher authority.

Some of us are already not fond of super-competitive stuff like this because it attracts exactly the kind of behavior we're seeing here. Prove us wrong, please.

[forbiddian]

I'm not involved in this community at all. I have 20 posts in 4 years and I don't know anybody. I came here because I like Wesnoth, and it'd be nice to see a tournament with top players playing matches with pride on the line. Neki is ruining the event for me, and he repeatedly says he's doing it under the auspices of respecting the viewers, and getting new players involved in competitive play.

I'm a viewer, and I was interested in competitive play. What did this tournament teach me? Well, I learned if I sign up to play, I'm going to be browbeaten. I'm going to be forced to read a cryptic tome of frankly draconian rules (that are just going to be violated anyway if the more vocal and whiny person wants). If I call the rules out on the problem, I’m going to get bullied. Even if literally everyone disagrees with the bully, he'll still bully each person in turn (the community is too polite to call him on it). If I have any scheduling conflicts during the event, I'll be forced to play at a severe handicap (in violation of the rules, which first say to be flexible, and second say you're allowed an emergency reschedule, but again, the more vocal person decides what the rules are because you wouldn’t believe the tantrums this guy can throw, so you might as well just go with it). If I play and lose, I'll be mocked, both during the game, and after (twice). And even if I win and advance to a later round, my opponent is highly to resign from the tournament in order to prove some childish point and to stick it to me for trying. Imagine running the gauntlet and being victorious for 3 months against qualified and dedicated teams who practiced and played hard to tried to win, and then the finals are a walkover because the other guy decides the tournament means less to him than proving that the tournament was poorly run. Literally that's the point neki is trying to make. Absolutely disgraceful. FIFA herself would be embarrassed.

So how much money is the prize pool? How many thousands of dollars will I get for suffering that deluge of hypocrisy and bullying? Oh wait, this is a FUN tournament.

Anyway, I’m really sick of this guy, and I’m sick of talking about him. I do want to say I came into watching this tournament extremely excited to get to see a Wesnoth tournament. It’s a really interesting strategy game I’ve played on and off for 6 or 7 years, and this is the first time I happened to be playing it around the same time as TGT. I was really excited to see this, but I’m not enjoying this event so far. I'm still excited and I'll keep watching.

I want to share a story. Yesterday, I was obsing a ladder game. A player made a questionable attack and got a terrible roll: no hits and huge retal damage. Then he said, “oh >.< misclick”. The opponent goes, “Ok, let’s reload!” There wasn’t hesitation or even a question that the player was lying about the misclick because the roll was bad, or stalling for time, or anything. That’s something (most) players don’t do in Wesnoth. It’s a small community, and the vast, vast majority of people trust each other and play in good faith. They want to win, but they want to win in an even game, not because their opponent misclicked, or because they can take advantage of some rule to disqualify their opponents. And they’re willing to compromise, even putting themselves at a handicap, in order to get a fair game. You guys are awesome, and I really hope this tournament has a lot of great games, and winners who can hold their heads high that they came and conquered.

[alpha1]

I do want to say I came into watching this tournament extremely excited to get to see a Wesnoth tournament. It’s a really interesting strategy game I’ve played on and off for 6 or 7 years, and this is the first time I happened to be playing it around the same time as TGT. I was really excited to see this, but I’m not enjoying this event so far. I'm still excited and I'll keep watching.

No worries, it will get better, as polish national anthem says "everything is only slightly doomed" (my free translation)
But honestly for now let's wait for Dunno's official post

[abhijit]

Just reminding everyone, please come and join us ( Burning Woses and Winged Cudgels ) at 0700 gmt, today for a fun game.

Stupid woses in their own sudden 'burst of intelligence' have already set themselves and the arena on fire, and we claim, we can just walk through the high rising flames. (or may be we'll just blow the fire away ). Bring your protective gear, observers, just in case. See you there!




On a side note: Scheduling of our game began right after the opening ceremony, but finding a common time took almost a week. While this says that teams should be a bit hasty about scheduling games, it also says that they might have already started doing it (via pms), and aren't actually inactive, just not found a workable time yet.

Best,
abhijit

[forbiddian]

Does this help?

It does not help. I learned GMT is not the same as the time in Greenwich. Add 1 hour.

[neki]

I am going to say only this. People that spend hours to look for out of context quotes against a single person and seem to find tones of defects for that person not directly related to the tournament in constant kilometric posts:

1. They are the ones and only ones to be actually doing the insults around here

2. They should get an actual real life hobby or girlfriend, they will see they will stop hating that hard