[Complete] Tournament of Champions 2v2 Results and Information

[Noy]

I've forfeited our matches to Nordmann's team. My team is too busy, and I'm not really having too much fun playing matches either. I'll let others have the pleasure of playing against nordmann.

BTW Zero, if you want tips to beat him, just pm me. I don't really have the patience to play another three 6 hour games (It was an exercize in pure frustration), but I'll tell you how to do it.

[PhD]

Dear Noy. Me and zero1 played a lot of games with Nordmann and Sombra. Always with pleasure. Big pleasure.

[IB]

Just let it die, scheduling is impossible.

[Nordmann]

Well, Noy sorry for not offering a playing style that pleasured. So i just offer everybody to have a look on the replay, (Sombra posted it), to get his own view. Hmm so sadly you forfeit, so the total result will be 1,5-0,5. Second game "Morituri" was won by Khim and me against Noy and Truper. Watching the replay of the first game, will show advantages for our team.
Maybe this should be said - not everybody gets the idea "i just annoyed Noy" so he forfeits. I really feel sorry about the end of this match up and the need of getting personal against an opponent.

Nordmann

[Doc Paterson]

I think this tournament has become too much of a mess to be given dinosaur/HOEC support.



The remaining players should take a vote as to whether or not things should continue.

[Mythological]

Doc has a point there.
I don't want to point fingers to anyone, but the organization of the tournament has failed badly
Here are the options IMHO:
-either someone steps in and volunteers to take over the tournament - but only someone with authority , interest and will to put some effort into choosing the maps for the next round, solving the problem with the leftover matches, scheduling the time for the matches and unfortunately even acting like a fire extinguisher from time to time
or, if not
-let us all agree to proclaim this tournament dead, destickify it and let it sink into oblivion

Whatever happens, I sincerely hope that this wont be the last 2v2 wesnoth tournament - I prefer team games over 1v1 and 1v1v1 and I know that there are at least a dozen players from which anyone can defeat anyone else in 2v2, and taking the pairings into account it can be even more interesting than 1v1s ...

[Sombra]

Its not that we dont play each others anyway.

I think DocPaterson is right that the spirit of the competion is misssing.

If we try this again I think we should :

a. fix the dates and hours to play in advance even for the first three rounds. Teams who do not show up are automatically out.

b. play with timer

[zero1]

I really dont see why it should die just becuase it have taken some time there have still been played a lot of games and 3 round seems to be ready. All we have to agree on is the maps.

I suggest we find a person outside the tournament (could be any) to role a dice x numbers of times and post the result. We play the maps which the roles first comes up. eg if some role 5,6,6,4,5,3,2,2,4,1 we play map 5,6,4,3,2 in that order best of 5.

1 Clash

2 Morituri

3 Path of Daggars

4 Loris river

5 Castle Hopping isle.

6 Lagoon

Next rounds oppents are found as i see it so it just for the teams to find time to play them.

So will someone agree to be the dice roler please post here If we all agree on that person as dice roler (someone known please

[Noy]

I really dont see why it should die just becuase it have taken some time there have still been played a lot of games and 3 round seems to be ready. All we have to agree on is the maps.

Its just that some people who are still in the tournament don't want to play anymore, and if there is little committment now, it doesn't look good having it drag on for another two months without any movement.

I don't mind taking the reigns and organizing it from here on in, but I think we should make sure that people are committed to finishing the tournament.

[krotop]

I'm not sure if I have my word to say as I'm not in the tournament anymore, but I believe that it would be better to continue. IMO, If the remaining players just let it die, it will highly discourage next 2vs2 tournaments to be organised. Whereas if they overcome the past difficulties and go on with the next round, they'll prove that such tournament can work nicely, thus encouraging the edition of future ones that will hopefully take experience from the problems encountered in that one.

[Noy]

There are several problems with 2v2s that I think we need to realize, because I think its really difficult to get one together effectively, to the point its nearly impossible.

First off is game length. 2v2s take far more time than 1v1s. Its not just sheer increase of players but also mechanics of team play. 2v2 is a team game that requires teamwork. It takes time. Two of my games took over 6 hours each. That in itself isn't bad, but its alot to ask of people. Feasibly a best of three can be done to shorten up the game time, however given the influence of chance, it brings up the complaint that best of threes might not give you an idea of who is the best player. Finally there is the scheduing issue. The mechanics of getting four people in the same place online is difficult at the best of times, not to mention when you throw in the timezone factor.

To be honest, after this I probably won't run another 2v2 tournament, and I certainly won't play in another, barring a change of heart. I enjoy playing with my group of players, like jb, myth, winter, kollle, suv and others, and I don't need a tournament to do so.

Also another potential complication for the people who want it to continue, I should also note that 1.3.2 is to be released in a couple of days, with major balancing of the arcane damage type. Some of us have already agreed to move over to branch and start playing more and more there given the changes. Thats going to take alot of the attention away this very quickly. FYI.

[Yogin]

I second noy's point about the length of games and rebut the suggestion of the timer. There's no way to coordinate teamwork with a timer clicking down your throat. Communication takes typing back and forth and time. Overall strategy may take upwards of 10 minutes for one turn and then the following turns may only use 2-3 minutes. A timer doesn't work with this type of turn length distribution.

If someone else wants to continue a 2v2, I would suggest considering timing and player availability as the very first issue. Perhaps divide brackets up based on time zone, and then declare a champion of the U.S time zones, and a champion of the European time zones. Then, _if_ they can find a time to play each other, you can declare an overall champion. Also, an option is to insist on at least 2 alternates or insist on a # of total hours/week available to schedule.

[krotop]

Feasibly a best of three can be done to shorten up the game time, however given the influence of chance, it brings up the complaint that best of threes might not give you an idea of who is the best player.

The influence of chance is lessened on 2vs2 I think, as there are more units and more battles. Moreover, if a player gets unlucky, his ally is likely to help and compensate, which is also part of the teamplay skill, and fun. Despite my arguments, it remains subjective, but 3 games sound enough.

[JW]

Also another potential complication for the people who want it to continue, I should also note that 1.3.2 is to be released in a couple of days, with major balancing of the arcane damage type. Some of us have already agreed to move over to branch and start playing more and more there given the changes. Thats going to take alot of the attention away this very quickly. FYI.

YES!!!! You called it Arcane!!

[Velensk]

I definatly think that that would be an improvment over holy.