How is the in-game editor used?

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How do you use the in-game editor?

I create scenarios using only the editor
1
3%
I create scenarios using the editor that also contain hand coded WML
1
3%
I use the editor to create the map and then hand code all WML
28
70%
I use the editor to create the map and use no scenario or WML features
6
15%
I use the editor for another purpose (please post what it is!)
4
10%
 
Total votes: 40

name
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Re: How is the in-game editor used?

Post by name »

JustNatan wrote: December 18th, 2020, 3:28 pm Tbh the main reason why I don't use the editor for anything else but map creation is because I never knew that you could. It is called "map editor" so I thought it would only be an editor for maps. It had some grey buttons called "Areas" and "Side" but I didn't give them much thought (maybe just disabled, huh?)
This was my understanding as well. All this time, I had assumed the greyed-out scenario editing tools were To Be Done for some unspecified future version.

JustNatan wrote: December 18th, 2020, 3:28 pm Now that I know that it has other functionalities as well, I just started the editor again and I would like to describe my impression:
[...]
gnombat wrote: December 20th, 2020, 10:32 pm I think it's just that the scenario-related features in the editor are awkward to use. If you save a scenario with the editor, the file contains this comment:
[...]
Good observations.
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Pentarctagon
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Re: How is the in-game editor used?

Post by Pentarctagon »

BTIsaac wrote: December 23rd, 2020, 11:43 am
Pentarctagon wrote: December 22nd, 2020, 12:24 am
BTIsaac wrote: December 21st, 2020, 11:50 pm For example, many games that have editors use scripting tools that allow users to make scripts from pre made elements that are easy to learn and require little to no knowledge of coding. An editor that works like that is inevitably used by much more people than one that needs manual scripting.
I'm not looking to completely overhaul how the editor works - I simply don't have the time to attempt something like that.
It was an example. My point is that pulling something because there's no demand for it is not a successful mindset. Creating demand is. I wasn't trying to tell you what you should be doing. I mostly just went off on a tangent because you said something that made it come to mind.
I understand that. My own point is that I don't want to spend time trying to improve something that nobody is going to use regardless. The fact that it currently exists does not automatically mean it is useful or can be made to be useful.
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Re: How is the in-game editor used?

Post by Shiki »

gnombat wrote: December 20th, 2020, 10:32 pm

Code: Select all

# This file was generated using the scenario editor.
#
# If you edit this file by hand, then you shouldn't use the
# scenario editor on it afterwards. The editor completely
# rewrites the file when it saves it, which will lose any WML
# that the editor doesn't support.
There's a way around it, but I admit, that nobody who uses the editor would get the idea.

Code: Select all

# The WML generated by the editor is not inside a [scenario] or [multiplayer] tag,
# so one can …
[scenario]
	{./editor-generated-stuff.cfg}
	{./handwritten-events.cfg}
[/scenario]
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octalot
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Re: How is the in-game editor used?

Post by octalot »

Shiki wrote: December 27th, 2020, 11:39 pm

Code: Select all

[scenario]
	{./editor-generated-stuff.cfg}
	{./handwritten-events.cfg}
[/scenario]
I've created a PR to put this in-game help (erm, and merged the PR then created a second one to correct the first :oops: ). #5399

I think it would be better to use the tag amendment syntax, because then it's well-defined what happens if an attribute such as id appears in both parts.

Code: Select all

[scenario]
	{./editor-generated-stuff.cfg}
[/scenario]
[+scenario]
	{./handwritten-events.cfg}
[/scenario]
shevegen
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Re: How is the in-game editor used?

Post by shevegen »

It's been years since I last used it so I don't know what or if anything changed,
if we refer to the same code that is.

Back when I used it it was fine. But if I remember correctly then it just uses
ASCII codes to designate the map, right? Which then gets translated or
rendered into game map tiles?

If so then my idea back then was to skip the editor, and just use ruby to
create custom maps as-is. Again - not entirely sure to which editor the thread
refers to, but if it was the one where you essentially had a text file, then my
own use case was probably not the main target audience, since I'd use ruby
to autogenerate that.

Having said that, though, I am all in favour of GUI editors; even ideally in an
online-manner where others can help co-create scenarios, maps and so
forth. (Not sure how much work that would be but hopefully WASM will
be a success. Collaborative editing would be immensely useful. Not everyone
is a programmer or knows how to use git; in fact, I still don't know how to
use git!)

Edit: Oh yes, I remember back then, the WML format annoyed me actually.
That's why a GUI may also be useful, to abstract these details away, so
people can just focus on creating content. I did not feel like going through
all WML syntax and examples on the wiki for example ... :)

Pentarctagon wrote:

> [...] My own point is that I don't want to spend time trying to improve
> something that nobody is going to use regardless.

Understandable. I think different people use software differently.

However, even when the effort is not instantly worth the time investment
(can not speak for your case of course), I still think that the game/project
may benefit from GUI helper tools. Even if they may not be perfect or
overwhelming right now; just as the example of WASM may show, this
can always become better in the future. And then perhaps other people
may want to pick up, so I recommend GUIs! And good documentation.

Perhaps it could also be considered to add a new entry-point at the wesnoth
start interface or so, such as "Develop scenarios" or "Development Tool"
or "Design Tools" or something like that. And that could then be used to
extend collaborative efforts, perhaps with "in-game" chat and stuff.
This could be added as an experiment for the dev-version, and people could
give feedback, including the possibility to remove it again. That could be
useful to gather how people may use it, if at all; and perhaps with optional
telemetry that is, by default, turned off. Those who want to give feedback
and turn it on, like how the KDE project analyses usage patterns (also
opt-in rather than default-and-opt-out).
AndrewSublime
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Re: How is the in-game editor used?

Post by AndrewSublime »

Hello! I am using the Wesnoth map editor for an unusual purpose- creating world maps for Dungeons & Dragons.

Without any knowledge of WML (just an on-and-off player over the past... 8 years?) I have no trouble creating maps using the standard Wesnoth assets.

However, there is on specific issue that bothers me: randomized buildings.

It seems a random village is selected to be used in specific hexes. No matter what I do, I get the same building in the same hex; the only way for me to get a specific building is to randomly place villages until the desired building pops up.

As I am creating maps, I'd like greater control over which structure appears in a location. How difficult would this be to accomplish? Is it possible? Does it require use of WML?

If someone could tell me how it works, I would appreciate it.
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Re: How is the in-game editor used?

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

As I am creating maps, I'd like greater control over which structure appears in a location. How difficult would this be to accomplish? Is it possible? Does it require use of WML?
Easy, really. TerrainWML is required. Make a custom village tile for each village variant.
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AndrewSublime
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Re: How is the in-game editor used?

Post by AndrewSublime »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: April 14th, 2021, 5:24 pm
As I am creating maps, I'd like greater control over which structure appears in a location. How difficult would this be to accomplish? Is it possible? Does it require use of WML?
Easy, really. TerrainWML is required. Make a custom village tile for each village variant.
Cool! I am not a coder, but I can follow wiki instructions and change numbers. I'm going to read up on WML and give it a go.

Thank you!
shevegen
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Re: How is the in-game editor used?

Post by shevegen »

I recently used it. I don't remember when I first used it ... many many years
ago. And I have to say the game editor, at the least for maps, is super-great.
I am not even sure whether I should bother creating a ruby-gtk3 wrapper now,
simply because the existing functionality is quite nice already.

What I would recommend, if anyone has time and wants to, is to add support
for "scripting" in the editor. A text-view widget, perhaps for WML and lua in
particular; and in the latter case to enable lua events too. Kind of make it a
bit more like an editor. (And then one day, online too! Hopefully webassembly
can simplify this all.)

And for testing purposes to ALSO allow placing units. These don't get saved into
the map, logically, but it may be useful to have them. Like create a choke point
design map and see how the units go. And perhaps on click of a unit, show
the movement range too, like in a regular game.

Another usability suggestion: finding tiles can be a bit cumbersome. Perhaps
the UI can be visually improved ... right now I have to scroll down a bit which
is a bit annoying ... I tend to lose interest and just click on the first results
I see. :P
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lhybrideur
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Re: How is the in-game editor used?

Post by lhybrideur »

shevegen wrote: October 29th, 2021, 2:04 pm And for testing purposes to ALSO allow placing units.
You can already do that by creating a scenario in the editor instead of only a map
Another usability suggestion: finding tiles can be a bit cumbersome. Perhaps
the UI can be visually improved ... right now I have to scroll down a bit which
is a bit annoying ... I tend to lose interest and just click on the first results
I see. :P
Yeah. Sorting by terrain types or smth like that would be nice. Maybe collapsing sub-menus of smth like that. A bit like the encyclopedia menu.
shevegen
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Re: How is the in-game editor used?

Post by shevegen »

> You can already do that by creating a scenario in the editor instead of only a map

Aha - need to re-check it ... somehow I got distract scrolling through the items ... didn't
pay much attention elsewhere as my eyes were glued to the lower right part!

My memory fails me a bit ... I don't even remember fully when I first used the editor ...
but I am pretty sure that the variant I used somewhat more recently is different. In
hindsight perhaps we could have some screenshots to compare the UI progression,
but I just comment that casually, it's not so important.

I am glad I re-checked it though, because it's actually fairly well done. So my knowledge
about it was completely outdated, and probably has been for a few years before that
too, since I didn't quite check the editor (nor had a use case, but now that I'll slowly
be creating my first campaign, I actually do happen to have a use case indeed).
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