What does these words (tree-shagger, wose-spawned, wose-born) mean?

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rsi68871
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What does these words (tree-shagger, wose-spawned, wose-born) mean?

Post by rsi68871 »

I saw these words, tree-shagger, wose-spawned, wose-born, appear in SotBE and LoW, but have no idea about their meanings. Is there any background knowledge (maybe the origin of elves) needed to know about them?
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patience_reloaded
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Re: What does these words (tree-shagger, wose-spawned, wose-born) mean?

Post by patience_reloaded »

I guess the meaning of these words depends on who says them. I'm not sure with all of that though.
"tree-shagger" seems to be a more negative version of "tree-lover", which I expect was said by an orc. So it's basically an insult for "elf".
"wose-spawned" and "wose-born" however, I can't really tell either.
The woses are creatures from the fairy world that look like trees. Their role is unclear, but they seem to be the natural guardians of nature. They frequently work together with elves in battle (at least in Multiplayer battles), but according to lore, they are rarely seen, even by elves. I expect that the elves have a high respect for woses, so if an elf calls another elves "wose-spawned" or "wose-born", it could be a honorary title, indicating that the other elf has a great connection to nature. If an enemy of an elf however calls an elf "wose-spawned" or "wose-born", it could be an insult, meaning "you son of a tree".
Zrevnur
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Re: What does these words (tree-shagger, wose-spawned, wose-born) mean?

Post by Zrevnur »

Far as I remember these are used by orcs (and some others maybe, not 100% sure its orc also) and intended as insults. But I think these arent (or shouldnt be) actually insulting to elves.
So from orc perspective "wose spawned" is similar to "your mother was an orc" from elf perspective.

So the implication here is that orcs are intended to be quite stupid to not understand that?

On second thought it probably depends on who they address. If the orc addresses a fellow orc than the insult makes sense. But if the orc addresses an elf it doesnt. So the more intelligent orcs (if there are any?) should rather use something else as insult if addressing elves?
shevegen
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Re: What does these words (tree-shagger, wose-spawned, wose-born) mean?

Post by shevegen »

If orcs don't like elves then insults make sense.

The terms seem a bit different, though. For example, most people probably know what an orc
and an elf refer to, or should refer to in most cases. I have not heard the word "wose" before,
though. And I think many others have not, either.

Not that replacing that with another word nobody knows makes it any better. Perhaps the
in-game help section could have more about woes. The way how I assume it to be is to
simply refer to them as "tree-like thingies". At the least the images look like trees that
can walk ... :P

(By the way, if an orc uses the word wose "in-game", then it would imply that an orc knows
what a wose is. Perhaps those who added these units never thought about this from the
point of view of different factions, but if you look at the whole game design, then such
minor details should be considered, as otherwise it may lead to odd situations and lack
of consistency. Not that I think it is hugely important; having interesting game mechanics
is more important! But game lore is also not totally unimportant either. )
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patience_reloaded
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Re: What does these words (tree-shagger, wose-spawned, wose-born) mean?

Post by patience_reloaded »

shevegen, you've got some interesting points there.

About the word "wose": I agree that many people might not understand that first try, but: the woses are part of the rebel faction in multiplayer battles. So their kind shouldn't be too badly unknown. What makes it more difficult to understand the word might be that the translations are more strongly different. In my language for example the translation for "elf" is "elf", "orc" translates to "ork", but "wose" translates to "waldschrat". That doesn't sound anywhere similar. However, in mainline campaigns, it's likely that not only their race is translated, but also the insults based on their race, so it shouldn't be so much of a problem.

About the thing with an orc knowing what a wose is: Good point, that's a surprise. According to their unit description in https://units.wesnoth.org/1.14/mainline/en_US/Wose.html, the woses are "Rarely seen even by elves", which indicates that most people outside of elves probably don't even know woses exist.
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Helmet
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Re: What does these words (tree-shagger, wose-spawned, wose-born) mean?

Post by Helmet »

I wouldn't use any of the insults cited in the OP in a campaign.

Orcs value swords and raw power, and they don't like how elves hide in the forest and use bows, so I would suggest that orcs call elves names which reflect this, such as leaf-lovers and forest freaks, and add descriptive words such as weak, pathetic, bow-using, and cowardly.

So an orcish leader might say, "Mog, those woods are filled with bow-using leaf-lovers! I saw a cowardly, ambushing ranger lurking near the pine trees. Summon the goblin horde, Mog! The forest freaks are doomed!" And so forth.

Actually, orcs don't need clever insults, as the word "elf" is an insult to the orcs. An orc need only say, "Tonight we fight...elves." to feel like he belittled his enemy.
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ForestDragon
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Re: What does these words (tree-shagger, wose-spawned, wose-born) mean?

Post by ForestDragon »

In my opinion, "tree-shagger" seems like the best one of out of the three posted by the OP. "wose-spawned" and "wose-born" just sound too... tame and sanitized to be something an orc would say (personally, I'd imagine they'd be one of, if not the, most vulgar race(s) in Irdya, and the only reason they aren't, is, that, well, wesnoth is a family-friendly game.). And the insult in question imo is a pretty good balance between impact and not getting the game a 17+ age rating :P.
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BTIsaac
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Re: What does these words (tree-shagger, wose-spawned, wose-born) mean?

Post by BTIsaac »

Helmet wrote: December 13th, 2020, 1:45 pm So an orcish leader might say, "Mog, those woods are filled with bow-using leaf-lovers! I saw a cowardly, ambushing ranger lurking near the pine trees. Summon the goblin horde, Mog! The forest freaks are doomed!" And so forth.

Actually, orcs don't need clever insults, as the word "elf" is an insult to the orcs. An orc need only say, "Tonight we fight...elves." to feel like he belittled his enemy.
That sounds too much like "gosh-dangit to heck". I don't see any organic reason for why orcs of all races shouldn't use profanities in their insults.
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ForestDragon
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Re: What does these words (tree-shagger, wose-spawned, wose-born) mean?

Post by ForestDragon »

BTIsaac wrote: December 15th, 2020, 1:23 pm That sounds too much like "gosh-dangit to heck". I don't see any organic reason for why orcs of all races shouldn't use profanities in their insults.
Seems we have the same opinion on the matter, nice.
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