Unit genders

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fluxbird
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Unit genders

Post by fluxbird » May 26th, 2018, 4:09 pm

What, if any, is the reason that the vast majority of units are only available in one gender? I mean, it's 2018. Why don't we have female sergeants and male fairies? I personally think it'd be really cool to add more diversity to the game, one step at a time.

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Eagle_11
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Re: Unit genders

Post by Eagle_11 » May 26th, 2018, 4:13 pm

Its about lack of female sprites, mainly. So if you can draw get on board and try femalify some base sprites.

fluxbird
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Re: Unit genders

Post by fluxbird » May 26th, 2018, 4:19 pm

I haven't done this type of artstyle in a while but I could certainly try :D

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Vyncyn
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Re: Unit genders

Post by Vyncyn » May 26th, 2018, 4:35 pm

1. Artwork. Having two gender for each units will double the number of required unit sprites, animation and portraits.
2. Wesnoth is not 2018. It's roughly comparable to europe middleages and tolkien fantasy, where the vast majority of warriors are male. A 50/50 army would just be missrepresentaion

fluxbird
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Re: Unit genders

Post by fluxbird » May 26th, 2018, 5:26 pm

I didn't see any blue-haired thieves in LOTR and I doubt they were around in the European middle ages either so I don't know how much cred I'll put in the "misrepresentation" argument. And besides, using "it's medieval fantasy" as a justification for lack of gender representation is such a boring and outdated tactic - I find it hard to understand how people can find it more "realistic" to have trolls and orcs running around than a woman wielding a sword. I've seen excellent books and games with the same aesthetic that have no problem letting gender equality exist in their narratives.

I can understand the artwork argument though, which is why I've already picked up my tablet pen and started at least trying to work on that myself.

Whiskeyjack
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Re: Unit genders

Post by Whiskeyjack » May 26th, 2018, 5:46 pm

The thief unit has a female sprite though, doesn't it? :D

Edit: Since this is the internet, I feel compelled to add that this is a joke.

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Vyncyn
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Re: Unit genders

Post by Vyncyn » May 26th, 2018, 6:06 pm

Wesnoth isn't a copy of LOTR, but based on Tolkien fantasy. The blue hair is explained in the unit description and has nothing to do with variety or historical accuracy. And all thieves have blue hair so there's no additional artwork for different hair colours.
Also there is no lack of gender representation imo. Any unit where a roughly equal distibution of gender is logical does have a female variation. Unit roles that where historically fulfilled mostly by men are displayed as male (which I think makes sense). It doesn't make sense to send large numbers of women into war, since a population with lots of females can regenerate easier than one with a majority of men.
And then there are many campaigns (mainline and UMC) which feature female fighters and leaders (e.g. Malin's sister in Descent Into Darkness). It's just not as common as male.

fluxbird
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Re: Unit genders

Post by fluxbird » May 26th, 2018, 6:11 pm

[shrug] If people agree with you then it won't make it into the game I guess, I'll still make as many sprites as I can and I'm sure I'll be able to find someone to help me make a mod that puts them in instead.

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zookeeper
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Re: Unit genders

Post by zookeeper » May 26th, 2018, 6:14 pm

Sprites aren't a problem, portraits are. Making female versions of a sprite isn't that hard, whereas there's only a handful of people who can make portraits of sufficient quality to match the existing ones.

fluxbird
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Re: Unit genders

Post by fluxbird » May 26th, 2018, 6:15 pm

For people that DO think this would be a cool idea, any suggestions on which units I should start with?

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Pentarctagon
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Re: Unit genders

Post by Pentarctagon » May 26th, 2018, 6:30 pm

It doesn't really bother me much either way, but if you are going to be putting effort into this, I'd suggest avoiding units that have armor. There's no way you'd be able to tell a male from a female Heavy Infantry, for example, and "boob armor" unsurprisingly wouldn't offer very good protection.
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: Unit genders

Post by Whiskeyjack » May 26th, 2018, 6:30 pm

Usually when this discussion came up, soldiers where discussed as a bad option, because women in realistic armor won't be that starkly different from males on sprite level. Personally, I'd be more interested to get some diversity for the all-male fantasy races (I don't think there's a single female orc for example).

For human units I can only think of the thug as a unit that is all male and no soldier (mage, fencer and the other outlaws all have female sprites IIRC).

Edit: Pentarctagon was faster.
Last edited by Whiskeyjack on May 26th, 2018, 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fluxbird
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Re: Unit genders

Post by fluxbird » May 26th, 2018, 6:32 pm

Yeah, I was thinking that too (with the armor thing). For those units really all that would be needed would be changing the sound effects when they're hit, and those sound effects already exist.

Actually, sprite-wise there are a lot of units where the current sprite would work both ways, with a change in sound effects.

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Vyncyn
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Re: Unit genders

Post by Vyncyn » May 26th, 2018, 6:35 pm

I'd start with a female variation of the elvish fighter, outlaw poacher or the ruffian and thug line. Female dwarf would be interesting too.

fluxbird
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Re: Unit genders

Post by fluxbird » May 26th, 2018, 7:32 pm

I'm starting work on the thug line, I think those'll be interesting to work with.

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