1.14 MP server login requirement

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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by name » May 22nd, 2018, 5:39 am

Pentarctagon wrote:
May 21st, 2018, 11:54 pm
I'm not going to go into details of any moderation actions that've been taken, but suffice it to say that such actions have indeed been necessary.
The wesnoth online community has been healthy for well over a dozen years without needing anything like this. Why is it 'necessary' now?
This is really perplexing.
Pentarctagon wrote:
May 21st, 2018, 11:54 pm
I also wouldn't consider a login requirement to be "so much security and verification".
It certainly is overkill for a system that stores no financial data and is inaccessible to spammers (unlike, say, a forum). There is so little harm that can be done by misbehavior in this context.

But there is harm in now introducing a system that potentially turns away new blood from the shrinking multiplayer community. A cumbersome, odd, unnecessary and buggy system. For example, I cannot even log in since my forum name (that I am required to use) contains a white space.

If there is a big wave of newcomers coming over from steam and this untested system blocks them like this, it is doubtful they will give the game a second thought since this will be their first experience with it. At best they might leave an unsavory review on the steam page on their way out the door.

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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by Pentarctagon » May 22nd, 2018, 6:19 am

Cold Steel wrote:
May 22nd, 2018, 5:39 am
Pentarctagon wrote:
May 21st, 2018, 11:54 pm
I'm not going to go into details of any moderation actions that've been taken, but suffice it to say that such actions have indeed been necessary.
The wesnoth online community has been healthy for well over a dozen years without needing anything like this. Why is it 'necessary' now?
This is really perplexing.
Because not every single person who's used the MP server is as nice as the subset of people you've encountered.
Cold Steel wrote:
May 22nd, 2018, 5:39 am
Pentarctagon wrote:
May 21st, 2018, 11:54 pm
I also wouldn't consider a login requirement to be "so much security and verification".
It certainly is overkill for a system that stores no financial data and is inaccessible to spammers (unlike, say, a forum). There is so little harm that can be done by misbehavior in this context.
Not quite inaccessible.
Cold Steel wrote:
May 22nd, 2018, 5:39 am
For example, I cannot even log in since my forum name (that I am required to use) contains a white space.
Has this been reported anywhere? It's no longer possible to register a username with a space in it(which isn't a new change), so this wouldn't be something that happens to new users.
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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by shadowm » May 22nd, 2018, 7:23 am

Cold Steel wrote:
May 22nd, 2018, 5:39 am
For example, I cannot even log in since my forum name (that I am required to use) contains a white space.
You can PM the Forum Administrators group a username change request.

I don’t remember the exact year (which is a bit embarrassing since I wrote the patch for phpBB), but the limitation on characters that can be used in usernames on the MP server was extended to new forum registrations in either 2009 or 2010 and I believe that when Wesnoth 1.6 was released an announcement was made telling people that they could request username changes if it became necessary in order to make use of registered usernames on the server.
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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by name » May 23rd, 2018, 3:22 pm

Pentarctagon wrote:
May 22nd, 2018, 6:19 am
Because not every single person who's used the MP server is as nice as the subset of people you've encountered.
That is certainly true, but it is important to weigh one cost against another. If on average it is so rare for any one player to encounter a cheater, for example, and presumably they suffer no lasting damage from the experience, then the cost of a no registration / no login requirement system is very low.

And there are the benefits of no delay, no hassle and no bugs that the old minimal login system provided.

I also have a distinct impression of game communities that allow semi-anonymous play evolving a generally much more easy going, less "winning is everything" culture to them. It gets worse when win/loss statistics are automatically tracked for each user account.
Pentarctagon wrote:
May 21st, 2018, 11:54 pm
Not quite inaccessible.
Well but wouldn't someone need to write a custom spam bot in order to post ads in the multiplayer lobby chat? Customized just for wesnoth's own network system?
shadowm wrote:
May 22nd, 2018, 7:23 am
You can PM the Forum Administrators group a username change request.
Okay I have done so, thank you.
shadowm wrote:
May 22nd, 2018, 7:23 am
I don’t remember the exact year (which is a bit embarrassing since I wrote the patch for phpBB), but the limitation on characters that can be used in usernames on the MP server was extended to new forum registrations in either 2009 or 2010 and I believe that when Wesnoth 1.6 was released an announcement was made telling people that they could request username changes if it became necessary in order to make use of registered usernames on the server.
Hmm, I joined the forums just before then but never felt the need to hold on to a particular name in multiplayer, so I guess the me of that time must have disregarded and later forgot that announcement existed.

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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by Pentarctagon » May 24th, 2018, 12:05 am

Cold Steel wrote:
May 23rd, 2018, 3:22 pm
Pentarctagon wrote:
May 22nd, 2018, 6:19 am
Because not every single person who's used the MP server is as nice as the subset of people you've encountered.
That is certainly true, but it is important to weigh one cost against another. If on average it is so rare for any one player to encounter a cheater, for example, and presumably they suffer no lasting damage from the experience, then the cost of a no registration / no login requirement system is very low.

And there are the benefits of no delay, no hassle and no bugs that the old minimal login system provided.

I also have a distinct impression of game communities that allow semi-anonymous play evolving a generally much more easy going, less "winning is everything" culture to them. It gets worse when win/loss statistics are automatically tracked for each user account.
In which case, all I can really tell you is that there was in fact a discussion about whether or not to enable this requirement, and it was decided that it would be better to have it enabled than not.
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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by enclave » May 24th, 2018, 11:54 am

Pentarctagon wrote:
May 24th, 2018, 12:05 am
In which case, all I can really tell you is that there was in fact a discussion about whether or not to enable this requirement, and it was decided that it would be better to have it enabled than not.
Was there a discussion on who should be taking part in that discussion? ;) joking..

PS. I don't mind new login requirements to be honest.. but I'm also a person who prefers to use other name and not be visible among others..
Reason 1: if you are add-on maker a lot of people would want to contact you for reasons you may not want to discuss with them at all.. (you as developers should understand it better than anyone else... and example is this topic here :D)
There would be 2 ways to interact.. a) put them into ignore list... really? b) be rude c) be really nice d) not reply and pretend that you afk? (none of them are perfect)
Reason 2: if you are a known player a lot of people would want to contact you to speak about topics you dont want to discuss with them at all too..
Maybe you just want to play total stupid or not talk to friends or maybe somebody is drunk and dont want friends to see it lol
There would be 2 ways to interact.. a) put them into ignore list... really? b) be rude c) be really nice d) not reply and pretend that you afk? (none of them are perfect)
Basically it's easier now to put people into ignore list.. it's kind of great.. I put there people with terrible network connection, one that are on drugs and similar reasons.. so that I don't join game if any of them present..
And since you allow to have more than 1 account I can use my other registered names and stay invisible.
UNTIL
a) people find out that you are a content maker (sooner or later it always happens)
b) you played 20-30 games and people realized that you are a good player.. so you became known..
c) you made new friends...
We are in a loop where I would need to use a new registered name...

Well to be honest so far I avoided using many names.. but I wasn't really playing anything on 1.14 for a while.
discussions discussions...

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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by Computer_Player » May 24th, 2018, 4:39 pm

How about anonymous mode toggle. so you are automatically assigned Anonymous name if you have it toggled on. But you need to connect through your main account (just toggle it on/off in preferenes as needed)

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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by enclave » May 24th, 2018, 5:57 pm

i guess it would be same as to enter unregistered.. what would be the benefit of anonimous mode? others would be able to put your name in ignore list by linking it to main account? :D so all your other names under same account would be ignored too? :D

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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by name » May 25th, 2018, 1:30 am

enclave wrote:
May 24th, 2018, 11:54 am
Reason 2: if you are a known player a lot of people would want to contact you to speak about topics you dont want to discuss with them at all too..
Maybe you just want to play total stupid or not talk to friends or maybe somebody is drunk and dont want friends to see it lol
There would be 2 ways to interact.. a) put them into ignore list... really? b) be rude c) be really nice d) not reply and pretend that you afk? (none of them are perfect)
Yeah, a lot of that is quite often enough the case for me as well.
enclave wrote:
May 24th, 2018, 11:54 am
And since you allow to have more than 1 account I can use my other registered names and stay invisible.
Is that really allowed though? Does not allowing alternate accounts defeat the purpose of the login requirement in the first place?

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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by Ravana » May 25th, 2018, 1:37 am

First post explicitly allows multiple accounts for this purpose. Purpose of login requirement is not to bother normal players.

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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by vultraz » May 26th, 2018, 8:30 am

For the record, there is a preference, under Multiplayer, to only accept PMs from friends.
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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by enclave » May 26th, 2018, 10:16 am

vultraz wrote:
May 26th, 2018, 8:30 am
For the record, there is a preference, under Multiplayer, to only accept PMs from friends.
It's nearly the same as to put person in ignore list :) it may not be obvious for some..
well it's actually worse.. imagine i tick it and you will try to message me on server? then i will get a ban for something I don't even know about :)

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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by Pentarctagon » May 26th, 2018, 2:23 pm

Aren't you effectively ignoring people by constantly changing your username in order to avoid them though?
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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by enclave » May 26th, 2018, 11:18 pm

Pentarctagon wrote:
May 26th, 2018, 2:23 pm
Aren't you effectively ignoring people by constantly changing your username in order to avoid them though?
it's different :) they think you are not there.. so it can't upset people. People are such beings that get upset easily if you tell them something bad or ignore them.. but they totally dont care about anything that happens if you are just not there :) So YES you are ignoring them, but in a very very very nice way... they are 100% happy about this type of ignore..

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Re: 1.14 MP server login requirement

Post by Pentarctagon » May 27th, 2018, 7:33 am

enclave wrote:
May 26th, 2018, 11:18 pm
Pentarctagon wrote:
May 26th, 2018, 2:23 pm
Aren't you effectively ignoring people by constantly changing your username in order to avoid them though?
it's different :) they think you are not there.. so it can't upset people. People are such beings that get upset easily if you tell them something bad or ignore them.. but they totally dont care about anything that happens if you are just not there :) So YES you are ignoring them, but in a very very very nice way... they are 100% happy about this type of ignore..
I mean, is it really that hard to say that you don't want to talk right now/talk about that right now?
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

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