How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

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revolting_peasant
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How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by revolting_peasant »

I've not played an undead campaign before; and now, in Dead Water, I have an Undead Bat. From the "Wesnothpedia" it seems like the level sequence is L0 walking corpse, L1 Undead X (where X can be Bat, Drake, Dwarf, Goblin etc. etc.) and no L2.

So is it actually the case that Undead units don't gain the L2 stats of their live counterparts? And - what's their AMLA behavior like?
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The_Gnat
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by The_Gnat »

Most undead units (skeleton,skeleton archer,ghoul,dark adept) do have lvl 2 and even lvl 3 advancements. However, the soulless is an exception it has only a lvl 0 and lvl 1 units. I think this is because it walking corpses and their variants (dwarf,drake,human,...) all are like stupid dead bodies who aren't smart enough to advance ;) Unfortunately they also do not have a very good AMLA (i believe +8 max hp, and heal fully - all units have the same amla) so they aren't that good units.

But if you get other undead units (like alive bats, and skeletons) you can advance them higher.
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by ForestDragon »

The_Gnat wrote:(i believe +8 max hp, and heal fully - all units have the same amla) so they aren't that good units.
actually, it's merely +3 max hp.
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by The_Gnat »

:annoyed: That is some what.... lame...


But i respect that the designers did what is best for balance :)
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by James_The_Invisible »

If you want to play with higher level zombies and/or additional unit lines for them, try out campaign Danse Macabre. Unit tree for the campaign: https://units.wesnoth.org/1.12/Danse_Ma ... cabre.html.
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revolting_peasant
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by revolting_peasant »

James_The_Invisible: Nice plug there :-)
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by doofus-01 »

The_Gnat wrote::annoyed: That is some what.... lame...


But i respect that the designers did what is best for balance :)
Well, it's not just for balance, it fits theme as well: the zombies are just rotting meat-puppets, they have no future. The Soulless are a nice compromise, in that there is something for leveling up, but really, no future.
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by The_Gnat »

True, also I am wondering how much max hp is gained by normal AMLA? (such as the slayer)
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by Paulomat4 »

True, also I am wondering how much max hp is gained by normal AMLA? (such as the slayer)
Just the same, +3hp. AMLAs are just there in the main game so that the xp is not really wasted, but honestly it's just not worth it.
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by Poison »

Paulomat4 wrote:
True, also I am wondering how much max hp is gained by normal AMLA? (such as the slayer)
Just the same, +3hp. AMLAs are just there in the main game so that the xp is not really wasted, but honestly it's just not worth it.
It kinda is after 3 - 4 AMLA, there is a noticeable difference and the unit survives more.
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by Paulomat4 »

yeah, you could get 12hp for like 700xp or about 7-8 lvl 3 units. it's really worth it. ;)
no, really over long campaigns it might be worth AMLAing a low hp unit like a spectre, but most of tge times, no it's not worth it.
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by Poison »

Paulomat4 wrote:yeah, you could get 12hp for like 700xp or about 7-8 lvl 3 units. it's really worth it. ;)
no, really over long campaigns it might be worth AMLAing a low hp unit like a spectre, but most of tge times, no it's not worth it.
It's not like you focus on it. It just happens by being in a hurry trying to kill as many units as possible for the early finish bonus [I was mainly referring to loyals; for example my Gruu at SotBE nightmare (which I'm playing currently) looks like a lv4 or lv5 unit]. I don't think it's anywhere nearly 700xp for lv2 cap units (but then again, I don't pay much attention so you might be right).
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by The_Gnat »

Paulomat4 wrote:yeah, you could get 12hp for like 700xp or about 7-8 lvl 3 units. it's really worth it. ;)
no, really over long campaigns it might be worth AMLAing a low hp unit like a spectre, but most of tge times, no it's not worth it.
Yeah, i personally think it should be increased slightly so that it is not so useless, but the game is well balanced now. And a slight hp increase wouldn't really be more interesting, which is a main reason why i made my era which allows all units to advance to lvl 4 and 5, i really like advancing a lot over campaigns. Especially long campaigns like TRoW by the end it is awesome to have some level 5 units!! 8)
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revolting_peasant
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by revolting_peasant »

I have to say I don't quite see the rationale for why the levelling + AMLA for soulless the way it is now. I mean:

* If level progress is limited, why even allow a walking corpse to make Level 1 at all without some sort of necromantic intervention?
* You can't argue the level progression is limited according to anything involving the unit's previous life.
* If someone were to argue level progression is limited since these things depend on how that Undead unit came into being (e.g. powerful vs weak creator or Recruit vs kill with plague), then the leveling of regular Undead units doesn't make much sense either.

But then, I guess the leveling of Skeletons doesn't make much sense either, as with the level changes you also see a change in description of what those things had done in their past lives... and additional gear kept from when they were alive, except that it tends to improve over time instead of wear out even more.
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Re: How does soulless level progression / AMLA work?

Post by pauxlo »

Note that beside the walking corpses, also goblin spearmen are limited to level 0 + 1 in mainline (and Khalifate's falcons). Some other lines are limited at level 2 (augur, ulfserker, orc assassin, bats, gryphon rider) (or there are branches which are limited at level 2 – lancer, javelineer, rocklobber, pillager, deathblade), most go to level 3, and a select few go to level 4 (sylph, great mage, grand marshal). (And there are some single units which are level 5: Fire dragon and elder mage (Delfador, who is level 5 mostly for flavor reasons, the unit is actually weaker than the level 4 great mage).)

This is mostly for diversity reasons.
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