Wesnoth Board

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iceiceice
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Wesnoth Board

Post by iceiceice » November 28th, 2016, 11:30 am

Hi,

I'm writing in regards to the Wesnoth Inc. board, which was mentioned in some earlier posts:
I've decided to resign from the board. I don't think it's appropriate to go into details, but essentially, I feel that there is enough distance between the kind of project and organization that I want and what the other board members want that it doesn't make sense for us to continue. Even if various issues could be resolved in the future, at this point I'm just not excited or interested in doing anything associated to the board. It makes more sense for someone other than me to be there.

It's up to you guys how to proceed. One thing you could do is offer my spot to doofus-01. Or, you could hold new elections, or, just have a three person board.

Best regards,
iceiceice

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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by Chewan » November 28th, 2016, 4:13 pm

Very sorry to hear that, iceiceice. It was too good to last ... :hmm:
Offering your spot to doofus-01 speaks in your favor and seems to be a very good choice.

However, one can assume that the board is likely to follow the ranking of the vote count (if only to avoid further disputes and different opinions). And our trusted art director Jetrel, or the highly active community/release/forum administration manager and BfW/Wesnoth 2 developer vultraz already stated their willingness to serve the project and its development even more – in this case by increasing the transparency of management and fund administration.

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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by Whiskeyjack » November 28th, 2016, 4:56 pm

Indeed, that´s sad news; thanks for all the effort you invest(ed) into Wesnoth, iceiceice!
Chewan wrote:Offering your spot to doofus-01 speaks in your favor and seems to be a very good choice.

However, one can assume that the board is likely to follow the ranking of the vote count (if only to avoid further disputes and different opinions).
doofus-01 would be the one following in vote count ranking though ;)
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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by Chewan » November 28th, 2016, 5:13 pm

Whiskeyjack wrote:doofus-01 would be the one following in vote count ranking though ;)
:hmm: viewtopic.php?f=2&p=602929#p602929

iceiceice -- 10
Jetrel -- 8
Vultraz -- 7
doofus -- 6
Aginor -- 2

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GunChleoc
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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by GunChleoc » November 28th, 2016, 8:33 pm

Chewan, they are already on the board, so doofus is indeed next on the list ;)

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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by Dave » November 28th, 2016, 11:43 pm

iceiceice wrote: I've decided to resign from the board. I don't think it's appropriate to go into details, but essentially, I feel that there is enough distance between the kind of project and organization that I want and what the other board members want that it doesn't make sense for us to continue. Even if various issues could be resolved in the future, at this point I'm just not excited or interested in doing anything associated to the board. It makes more sense for someone other than me to be there.
Thank you for letting us know. I must admit I am a little unsure and confused as to what your reasons are, but of course if you do not want to be part of the board we will respect your wishes.

In the interests of transparency, we would like to make available the full logs of the conversations the board has had to date so the community is able to have a better understanding of how the board operates. Would you have any objection to us posting these?

Regards,

David
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iceiceice
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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by iceiceice » November 29th, 2016, 12:18 am

Nope, that's fine.

iceiceice

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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by Dave » November 29th, 2016, 3:27 am

In the interests of transparency, here are the logs of board discussion to date:

http://pastebin.com/GY0Lh2kL
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Pentarctagon
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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by Pentarctagon » November 29th, 2016, 7:05 am

So, a brief summary of what I got from the logs:

iOS-port
  1. a potential porter had been found
  2. wesnoth would get 75% of sales, the porter will get 25%
    1. this is better than the previous porting distribution of 50/50
    2. should be some meaningful level of progress on this after 3 months
    3. the person who was contacted doesn't seem to have responded
    4. current status unknown, though apparently some others have also indicated an interest
  3. people who bought the existing port may or may not be able to get the new port for free
    • also may or may not be able to get control of the account of the existing iOS port so it can eventually be taken down
wesnoth2/porting wesnoth to anura
  1. overall forum response was fairly negative, as doing so would mean losing most of the past 13 years of work
  2. moving to anura would "advance wesnoth's tech a decade"
    1. No specifics of this given, other than some sort of timing tool and an eventual memory analysis tool
finances
  1. accountants are currently hired to do wesnoth's taxes
  2. is apparently quite expensive, but nobody has the knowledge to do taxes for a small-business, so it can't be done "in-house"
transparency
  1. currently unsettled
  2. may end up with a "public" log of discussion for anyone to look at, and then a "private" log for sensitive information
licensing music/art
  1. mainline
    1. all new stuff will be under the CC-BY-SA after a certain date
    2. all old stuff will eventually be moved to CC-BY-SA
  2. forums
    • after some date, all new stuff posted to the forums will implicitly be CC-BY-SA
  3. add-on server
    1. unknown?
      1. vultraz seems to favor allowing NC/ND
      2. iceiceice doesn't want NC/ND, but resigned
      3. dave doesn't think it's the board's responsibility to be deciding the licensing
      4. jetrel seems to not favor NC/ND, at least for art - also thinks the licensing decision should be for the wesnoth project/community, rather than decided by just the board
iceiceice's resignation
  1. seems to be partially over the apparent direction being taken with the licensing changes, and iceiceice felt that objections were being ignored
  2. there also seems to have been some uncertainty/disagreement on what exactly the Board's purpose was
    1. where the Board ends and the wesnoth project begins, so to speak
  3. was no discussion from 11/06 until 11/28 when iceiceice resigned
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vultraz
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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by vultraz » November 29th, 2016, 7:22 am

That's a pretty concise summary. Thanks for putting it together :)

And no, there were no further communications in other channels.
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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by Dave » November 29th, 2016, 7:43 am

Pentarctagon wrote: [*]seems to have been no discussion from 11/06 until 11/28 when iceiceice resigned, unless it was happening via other channels[/list]
To be clear, there was no other discussion during this time. There was no other discussion at all other than some initial forum PM's before setting up this channel.
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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by Pentarctagon » November 29th, 2016, 1:48 pm

vultraz wrote:And no, there were no further communications in other channels.
Dave wrote:To be clear, there was no other discussion during this time. There was no other discussion at all other than some initial forum PM's before setting up this channel.
Updated, thanks for clarifying.
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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by UK1 » November 29th, 2016, 3:00 pm

Look, I don't know what the politics are with the board or Wesnoth's governance, but I've done some thinking with regard to finances:

-If Wesnoth is a nonprofit corporation, could we consider starting an endowment? I've seen two charities, one of which I was a part of, get more or less bailed out by starting an endowment. Donors tend to be more willing to give to an effort that they know will be lasting and not just hand to mouth. I'd be more than happy to get the ball rolling.

-Has anyone tested the waters for selling the rights to the Wesnoth name, story line, and mechanics for a miniatures game? I've known a lot of miniatures players who played Wesnoth, it would be free money, and could increase the player base of the virtual game and Wesnoth Inc. could start to build a brand. The mechanics need a tweak here and there to be more dice friendly, but nothing major. You'd be saving them the effort of making a mechanics system, creating storyline and be providing them with mechanics that have 10+ years of data behind them. I can absolutely see why it would be worth it for a miniatures company to buy the license even if they didn't believe the name itself had much value.

-I haven't seen Wesnoth represented at the various Cons I go to. It seems Gencon and board game/miniatures conventions would be really good places to market Wesnoth as well as the app. Having a stall isn't even really necessary. Just an iPad and an official-looking Wesnoth T-shirt.

Excuse me if these options have been explored already, I just... really want this game to thrive.
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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by Chewan » November 30th, 2016, 2:04 pm

And now? What is going to happen?

Aren't UK1's ideas worth a comment?

It seems that there are only 2 ? administrators left who still dedicate most of their time to the project, supported by less than half a dozen active devs … The reluctance to give responsibility (or even the right to vote) to low-ranking contributors or forum members might no longer be appropriate, the 'nobody is in charge' attitude finally be exhausted.
The novelty of someone beginning to employ forceful strategies and taking decisions without further ado must come as a shock to everyone, but initiative is not necessarily 'power grab', in the present situation it may be the only way to prevent the 'sinking of the ship' … even if the actions taken prove to be too hasty. At least no irreparable damage has been caused so far.

Isn't this new Wesnoth board the first attempt to reach decisions on the course and policy of Wesnoth – evidently not only Wesnoth, Inc – by means of formal and open joint discussion? Jetrel pointed out that there are completely normal and unavoidable obstacles to achieving a management organization figuring out exactly how it's supposed to operate. When money comes into play things immediately get more heated, emotions rise, reaching a joint decision seems unfeasible, dialog is often abandoned too early…
Maybe the departure of people with key functions or valuable contributors is, in general, too readily accepted – maybe iceiceice has not yet definitively turned his back on the Wesnoth board… :hmm:
iceiceice wrote:I'm not sure exactly why people voted for me to be on this board
iceiceice, IF it had been a community vote, or if I was (literally) entitled to choose board members I had given you a vote. It seemed you already HAD picked your battle when you challenged the spending of financial resources and felt obligated to try to set some things straight. You are one of those who got that ball rolling, there are issues ripe for debate, and coming off as the 'winner' as to the number of votes obtained showed, that certain hopes were pinned on you – yeah, to be 'an advocate for things like this'.
Would you reconsider your resignation? 'Do your job' (your words) in favor of the project, instead of putting it on hold? To give Wesnoth a chance and to overcome what are perhaps personal dislikes? (Perhaps I am wrong in that regard, no hard feelings, please.)
If time had allowed you to be more active, who knows whether you had not been the one appointed as community manager:)
Your idea to dispense with (always costly) accountants has not been rejected, I cannot believe that doing taxes for a small business is a book of seven seals. A suitable task for a treasurer;)
And why not trying to make a port to iphone? As it looks, superman ElGalloGringo isn't a serious competitor, wouldn't the prospect of pocketing a monthly cut of 25% increase your interest in becoming the iOS porter? 8)

* * *

As to the board, IMO, doofus-01 should be invited too – just as shadowm. I don't think it is possible to strictly separate the goals of Wesnoth Inc from BfW. Why should the new 'we strictly do want to make some decision, and move forward – we're not going to be hamlet, anymore' strategy be limited to financial issues anyway?

Also, there should really be a new (preferably open to everyone) page / topic in the Announcements section for all the earlier and future posts related to this board and iceiceice's transparency statement. The subject(s) is/are too important to bog down in several places.

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Re: Wesnoth Board

Post by Pentarctagon » December 1st, 2016, 1:05 am

UK1 wrote:Look, I don't know what the politics are with the board or Wesnoth's governance, but I've done some thinking with regard to finances:

-If Wesnoth is a nonprofit corporation, could we consider starting an endowment? I've seen two charities, one of which I was a part of, get more or less bailed out by starting an endowment. Donors tend to be more willing to give to an effort that they know will be lasting and not just hand to mouth. I'd be more than happy to get the ball rolling.

-Has anyone tested the waters for selling the rights to the Wesnoth name, story line, and mechanics for a miniatures game? I've known a lot of miniatures players who played Wesnoth, it would be free money, and could increase the player base of the virtual game and Wesnoth Inc. could start to build a brand. The mechanics need a tweak here and there to be more dice friendly, but nothing major. You'd be saving them the effort of making a mechanics system, creating storyline and be providing them with mechanics that have 10+ years of data behind them. I can absolutely see why it would be worth it for a miniatures company to buy the license even if they didn't believe the name itself had much value.

-I haven't seen Wesnoth represented at the various Cons I go to. It seems Gencon and board game/miniatures conventions would be really good places to market Wesnoth as well as the app. Having a stall isn't even really necessary. Just an iPad and an official-looking Wesnoth T-shirt.

Excuse me if these options have been explored already, I just... really want this game to thrive.
#1 - No idea. I'd have to look up what an endowment even is.

#2 - The entirety of wesnoth is currently under the GPL, so there isn't really anything to sell that anyone who wanted to couldn't make use of on their own for free.

#3 - That might be something for the board to look into at some point, probably when there aren't so many other issues going on.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

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