Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

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Velensk
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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Velensk » January 9th, 2016, 3:09 pm

I believe you may have misunderstood. I was not claiming that magic and army commanding were interconnected, I was claiming that there was no reason why Defeldor couldn't be completely competent in both the skills required to be a master magician and the skills required to be a commander. He has an entire campaign of being a commander and doing the 'against hopeless odds' thing to prove he has the ability. There is no 'general' class or 'magician' class where you have to pay a stiff experience penalty to have both and can only improve at one at a time, there are only the skills you need to command armies and to use magic. Defeldor has been both commanding armies and blasting people with magic for a very long time and I see no reason why he must be deficient in either for doing the other as well.
I don't want to change the scenarios' events because that would have to be rebalanced and that takes a lot of effort and would be certainly of lower quality than it's now.
As I said before, I don't think you need to change the gameplay of any scenario in any way to implement a different take on the story. The variant I suggested, I mostly suggested because it was a different take on the same situation that wouldn't require the gameplay to be changed at all. Your suggestion would also work in that regard.

As for not wanting to commit to a contribution that might not be accepted, that's one I can understand. A similar effect was part of the reason I was unwilling to retake control of Era of Myths. If you're fine with the story as is, there's little reason to do anything. This I will say though; if there's any value in it to you, this is a relatively light commitment and helping to fix something that is already agreed to be somewhat of a problem (if not a high priority). I'd say that even if you aren't a great writer you have something of a chance.
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Dugi
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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Dugi » January 10th, 2016, 5:38 pm

I think that one is unlikely to be a master of two professions. I am a physicist and programmer and I am not particularly exceptional at neither. I've made a physical discovery that may have a potential, but I did it because I was doing an experiment wrongly and got the results I expected, later I was told how was I supposed to do it and boom! discovered an alternative way to perform the process. If I dedicated enough time to physics, I might be much better at it, but my programming would suffer; if I dedicated more time to programming, I would be lame at physics. Both use mathematics heavily, but computer science uses much more abstract concepts. This makes me see it rather unlikely for Delfador to be an extraordinaire at both. I admit that I might get good at both after some more time, though.
Delfador himself did not command armies that much, in Delfador's Memories, there was a lot of scenarios with somebody else leading (Kalenz, but he was not the only if I recall correctly) and in some, he was just wandering alone.

I do not think that your variant is bad, I just wanted to tell that there are more alternatives.
I did not tell that I am satisfied with the current status of the campaign, when the portraits were changed, it does not fit. Changing the portraits to fit it does not look like something that's gonna happen because those who are in charge are stubborn, so what can I do?

The pull request feature I submitted was also something agreed on, the disagreement was just on a rather small and easy-to-code feature where I found the solution forced upon me to ruin the whole thing. If contributions are rejected for unimportant reasons, I am convinced that an assurance is necessary.

Anyway, we've gone pretty offtopic.

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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Scaramush » January 19th, 2016, 2:31 pm

Hello all, i am representative of russian wesnoth community.
We had recently made voting on the theme "which portrait of Li'sar do you like more?". About 90 people (yea, not much) participated in voting and results are following:
1) ~ 30 people liked new variant of Li'sar.
2) ~ 50 people liked old variant of Li'sar.
3) ~ 7 people were satisfied with both variants.
4) ~ 4 people were satisfied neither with old or new variants.

If somebody interesting: https://vk.com/battle_for_wesnoth — just scroll mouse wheel down a bit and use google translator

We do not insist anything, just want you to know this kinds of opinions ;)
Thx for attention.
Last edited by Scaramush on January 21st, 2016, 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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nuorc
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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by nuorc » January 19th, 2016, 3:04 pm

Velensk wrote:I don't think multiclassing is at all a good analogy for how developing skills works.
However this will evolve, I don't think we need to talk about classes and IRL-skills too much. Delfador is obviously a skilled mage, and if - with his age and all - he knows stuff about war, I don't think that will break the story.
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Chewan
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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Chewan » January 21st, 2016, 3:10 pm

@ Scaramush: voting on the theme "which portrait of Li'sar do you like more?"
Well, both Li'sars are well placed in the race, though the snotty little miss got her nose in front. :D
Almost all that can be said on this subject has been posted,
the question is: Does the Wesnoth community have a say?
Many important or contentious matters in the spotlight of public interest have been discussed at length on the forums,
a great many sound and useful proposals have been made, folks have volunteered to help resolving issues... however, of no effect.
I wonder if user-edited mainline dialogs have any chance to find approval, or new portraits from some art contributor...
And it is doubtful whether a developer will step into the breach.

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Dugi
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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Dugi » January 21st, 2016, 7:31 pm

Thanks for the link, Scaramush. The old portrait get 5 more votes since your post, the new one none...

This keeps the question open - is the change that requires additional dialogue rewrites, new sprites (that will never get animated, as I know how this goes in the times of late) and will displease most players necessary? The players give the game a meaning.
The old cartoony portraits were just representations of the object that our mind finished with details of its own imagination, these photorealistic ones seem to trigger the uncanny valley instead. Among those recently made, many portraits look quite creepy at times, almost all women portraits look rather unattractive, some male portraits do look good (maybe it's just the fact that I am not programmed to seek attractiveness in men), many look badass and that fixes everything. Undead are awesome, but they obviously don't represent humans, so no uncanny valley.

I am still offering a rewrite of the HttT dialogue in the case if somebody tells me yes, do it with a promise that it will be eventually accepted. I do not want it to end like my fully operational add-on reviewing system, Valkier's contributions to campaign portraits, sprite animations that are judged not good enough and the unanimated sprite is left unanimated or any other things. Tons of work done, then poured down the drain. Really motivating people to contribute.

Although, to be honest, I will have to struggle with myself a bit to make Konrad love Li'sar emotionally and not just rationally and end up in an unhappy marriage damaging Konrad's ability to rule.

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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Pentarctagon » January 22nd, 2016, 12:18 am

Dugi wrote:I am still offering a rewrite of the HttT dialogue in the case if somebody tells me yes, do it with a promise that it will be eventually accepted.
Such a promise should never be given, to anyone. Things should be accepted based on whether or not they pass whatever metric is being used to judge quality, not because it was promised that whatever was made will eventually be added one way or another.
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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Aldarisvet » January 22nd, 2016, 6:50 am

I would say that I like a face and a hair of new Lisar sprites by Jetrel. She becomes more attractive than in old ones.
At least at spirites Li'sar would look cute and feminine.
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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Dugi » January 22nd, 2016, 4:05 pm

Such a promise should never be given, to anyone.
So it should be at least validated by bits, I edit two scenarios, I am told if it's okay and I should carry on or told not let it be. I don't want to spend a month on something that will not be accepted because of some disagreements on petty details as before.
I would say that I like a face and a hair of new Lisar sprites by Jetrel. She becomes more attractive than in old ones.
As feminine as a woman in steel armour can be. What I fear is that it will get animated like those new sprites in Liberty during the last few years (they didn't).

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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Gyra_Solune » January 22nd, 2016, 6:02 pm

Animations are a fickle thing to happen - it's very difficult to get them looking good and they can be a daunting task. But in my opinion, animations aren't as important as actually getting a good base design. Basically, I'd rather the game be filled with really really amazing-looking single-frame sprites than a lot of mediocre ones even with full animations. Our goal is the best of both worlds, yes, but nothing's really guaranteed when making things for this game. It is, however, of greater priority to get a unit's base sprite as optimal as possible as soon as possible - because then less work is wasted, and when someone goes to work on the animations for them, it's assured they will actually be in the final game.

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Xara
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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Xara » January 23rd, 2016, 7:31 am

Dugi wrote:I am a physicist and programmer and I am not particularly exceptional at neither.
Interesting, that's also how I identify myself.

Would like to know you better. If I ever come to central Europe someday, maybe you can invite me to a lunch or something, like you suggested in LotI. :D
It pronounces Sha'ha, not Zara.

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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by zookeeper » January 23rd, 2016, 8:51 am

Dugi wrote:So it should be at least validated by bits, I edit two scenarios, I am told if it's okay and I should carry on or told not let it be.
Yes, something like that should definitely be done in small steps, at least to begin with.

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Dugi
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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Dugi » January 23rd, 2016, 5:49 pm

Xara wrote:Interesting, that's also how I identify myself.
Yeah, I always knew physicists rule the world :D
Xara wrote:Would like to know you better. If I ever come to central Europe someday, maybe you can invite me to a lunch or something, like you suggested in LotI.
Did you seriously get that far down there to see it? I thought no one did.
zookeeper wrote:Yes, something like that should definitely be done in small steps, at least to begin with.
I will remake a couple of scenarios then. And show it.

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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Xara » January 24th, 2016, 1:08 am

Dugi wrote:Did you seriously get that far down there to see it? I thought no one did.
Not really. I just read the codes. Not even a cheater. But if you put it in another way, I qualified for not being a cheater.
It pronounces Sha'ha, not Zara.

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Dugi
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Re: Old Portrait for Konrad & Li'sar

Post by Dugi » January 24th, 2016, 11:10 pm

I could not find the rewrites done by Turuk, it does not seem to be committed. Where is it?

I have made some changes to scenarios 2 and 3. Konrad should have more initiative, other dialogues were edited rarely, mainly to suit better his replies. Am I doing it right?
Attachments
03_The_Isle_of_Alduin.cfg
(10.72 KiB) Downloaded 191 times
02_Blackwater_Port.cfg
(16.11 KiB) Downloaded 175 times

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