Mainlines before add-ons?

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ekeron
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Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by ekeron »

I've finished liberty and all of the beginner campaigns except for httt.

I'm not a good player (overly aggressive with my units) and I'm wondering if the official campaigns will allow me to get the skill I need to get through the game's add-ons.

My question is should I finish the mainline campaigns before trying any add-ons?
If yes, any suggestions for somebody that still isn't very good at the game? :)
Completed official campaigns: ToTB, AOI, TSG, HttT, Liberty, HoT
Completed unofficial campaigns: The Amaranthine stone, Bad moon rising part 1, Ooze mini campaign
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Re: Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Heir to the Throne is regarded as the flagship campaign. You should play that, at least once.
Most UMC campaigns are targeted at intermediate level and progress towards expert level. You should play more mainline campaigns before switching to UMC.
I mostly play SP player and my skills are moderate (since I have been out of practice for quite a while). I don't play multiplayer because nobody wants to play with me :( .
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Aldarisvet
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Re: Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by Aldarisvet »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: I don't play multiplayer because nobody wants to play with me :( .
Nah, you cannot be serious.
Just create Isar's cross as host, wait a bit and people will join your game to play 2*2. That is the only true way if you want to play asap and do not want to waste time waiting for someone else host it.
ekeron wrote: If yes, any suggestions for somebody that still isn't very good at the game? :)
If you can finish UtBS in hardest difficulty, feel free to play UMC.
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Re: Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by Whiskeyjack »

Aldarisvet wrote:If you can finish UtBS in hardest difficulty, feel free to play UMC.
Not a good advice. A lot of UMC addons have different difficulty levels and are not as hard to beat as some mainline campaigns on highest difficulty. There is also the point of a lot of UMC having very different units/mechanics, so besides the absolute basics (and sometimes not even those) mainline may not really help you to "train" for those campaigns.
Playing HttT (as it is also an example of a longer campaign - which a lot of UMC are as well) is a good advice. For anything else: If you want to play it, just try it :D
The first time I played Wesnoth I couldn´t beat any of the longer campaigns (like HttT, TRoW), but you learn with time and if you feel like a campaign is too hard for you - just go back to mainline or try some other addon.
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Aldarisvet
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Re: Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by Aldarisvet »

Whiskeyjack wrote:
Aldarisvet wrote:If you can finish UtBS in hardest difficulty, feel free to play UMC.
Not a good advice. A lot of UMC addons have different difficulty levels and are not as hard to beat as some mainline campaigns on highest difficulty.
I just meant that if you can finish UtBS on hardest difficulty, that is a criterion that you almost ready to everything. Or at least to something ;)
I myself finished HttT first, then Liberty, than Northen Rebirth, then UtBS, than I went to multiplayer.
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Re: Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by Xara »

The playing style of multiplayer is a bit different from singleplayer. Different skills are required, but multiplayer is not necessarily harder.

I think the basic requirement before one can enjoy multiplayer games is finishing normal HttT. When playing the campaign, you get to know most of the mainline units. And if you can play through a 10-scenario campaign without mid-scenario reloads, then you're well prepared. You don't need to finish campaigns on hard, some of them are for try-harders.

There're different types of online games, requiring different level of skills. In short, pve games(survival maps, mp campaign), 2v2 and 1v1v1 requires not much skill for one to enter, while 1v1 requires a lot. It's like Gobang and Baduk, any one can play Gobang(5-in-a-row), but one gets invariably defeated by the pros in baduk(encircle-game).

As for the maps, I don't know why people play almost exclusively Isar's Cross for 2v2. The other mainline 2v2 maps are good too, and some of them can produce as quick but more interesting games. And I personally favor 1v1v1 maps, as they can potentially make more subtle games in which every player continuously judge the situation and adjust the strategies, though the things are hardly ideal.
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Re: Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by Aldarisvet »

Xara wrote: As for the maps, I don't know why people play almost exclusively Isar's Cross for 2v2.
It is like 'The Hunters' for Starcraft or 'Inland Sea' for Civilization 4. There is always exists one map that people prefer to play in multiplayer, totally ignoring others. I just want to say this is not only Wesnoth multiplayer phenomenon.
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Re: Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by Sire »

In general, I would recommend playing the Mainline campaigns some more before add-ons, to improve one's understanding of the game. However, as it seems you have finished Liberty and most of the beginner campaigns, if you want to jump into something a little harder, try Under the Burning Suns. It is a little different compared to what you are used to, but if you can handle that campaign, I would say you are ready for add-ons.

Just remember that add-ons may also introduce new factions, or may even replace the factions you are used to from mainline. If you have the general skillset for Wesnoth (using Zone of Control, utilizing Time of Day, and knowing when to fight and when to fall back, etc), and you can learn quickly to whatever the UMC throws at you, then feel free to start experimenting with the add-on campaigns.

* * * * *

Before I started any add-ons, I finished all the novice campaigns (save for Heir to the Throne), Liberty, and Under the Burning Suns. I also had several multiplayer games under my belt as my friends and I would play random maps, mostly cooperative against AI, but sometimes against each other as well. Later, after starting playing UMCs, I also finished Descent into Darkness and Delfador's Memoirs.

For the most part, if you have the grasp of Wesnoth mechanics (time of day, zone of control, when to fight or flight, etc) and you can learn quickly, you should be able to jump into add-ons without much difficulty. The best way to find out if you are prepared to play add-ons is to actually go ahead and give it a try. If you find them too difficult, try a different add-on or try practicing some more in mainline campaigns or multiplayer.
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ekeron
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Re: Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by ekeron »

Lord-Knightmare wrote:Heir to the Throne is regarded as the flagship campaign. You should play that, at least once.
I have played some of Heir to the Throne previously. I've just never finished. I usually lose interest after the siege of Elensefar while going through the crossroads. Months pass until I open it again and, by then, I feel like too much time has passed and i decide to replay it from the beginning. Last time I played it, I had stopped after finishing the scenario with the undead after the first fight with Li'sar. I saw that somebody by the name of Turuk was updating HttT and decided to wait until that had happened before continuing it. Though, it seems that project died sometime in October. :oops:

I've never played any multiplayer and I do savescum sometimes :oops: . It's usually during one crucial turn in a scenario where I've overextended myself because I never retreat even when i really should and if i don't have a bit of luck on my side I'll get wrecked. Though I think I've improved ever since I stopped getting bothered at the idea of losing a unit but I still can't accept the loss of any loyal units. :augh:

I've recently started a playthrough of legend of wesmere (I want to see if I can finish a long campaign). But, based on what everybody is saying, I think I'll give UtBS a try and see if I can handle it. :hmm:

And thanks for all of the advice! :)
Completed official campaigns: ToTB, AOI, TSG, HttT, Liberty, HoT
Completed unofficial campaigns: The Amaranthine stone, Bad moon rising part 1, Ooze mini campaign
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Re: Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

I saw that somebody by the name of Turuk was updating HttT and decided to wait until that had happened before continuing it. Though, it seems that project died sometime in October
The maintenance is still ongoing, if not active. Http, to my perspective, needs no improvements (Well, the broken branch concerning the Cliffs of Thoria would need to be completed).
I think I'll give UtBS a try and see if I can handle it.
Under the Burning Suns is regarded as one of the three hardest mainline campaigns. Good Luck... A quick advice: level up hunters, shamans and fighters (into marshals).
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Re: Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by Aldarisvet »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: Under the Burning Suns is regarded as one of the three hardest mainline campaigns. Good Luck... A quick advice: level up hunters, shamans and fighters (into marshals).
I prefer playing Shyde-fleet strategy. Recruiting only shamans in the second scenario. At later stages you would have 6 or more shydes. That means you almost need no other units. It is just a waste, using experiense for upgrading other types of units. Shydes are universal. They heal themselves, slows enemy and easely kills enemy units with good terrain defence with magic. Shyde-fleet would be especially needed in lava scenario. Two Shydes can easely kill Great Troll.

Actually this advice is applicable to all elvish campaigns.
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Re: Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

@Aldarisvet: Shyde-fleet strategy? I have never tried that before. Let me experiment a campaign with it. *Starts playing IftU*
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Re: Mainlines before add-ons?

Post by Aldarisvet »

Lord-Knightmare wrote:@Aldarisvet: Shyde-fleet strategy? I have never tried that before. Let me experiment a campaign with it. *Starts playing IftU*
Most funny thing was when I found poisonous ring at that lava scenario. One of shydes became totally frightening thing with magic poisoning farie touch attack. Also they all got several ALMAs so was not as weak as at the beginning. They all were almost invincible together.
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