Deterministic mode for save scummers!

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Zephandrypus
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Deterministic mode for save scummers!

Post by Zephandrypus » May 6th, 2015, 11:30 pm

With the deterministic mode (chosen when starting a campaign) even after reloading a save, the random number generator yields the same results. So if you're a slave scummer and need to stop, then this is the mode for you. The reason why save scumming is bad is that if you want to be competitive in multiplayer then you'll be softened up by the perfect results you've been getting. You won't be able to take it when all of your renamed characters are lost forever.

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taptap
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Re: Deterministic mode for save scummers!

Post by taptap » May 7th, 2015, 12:01 am

Experience from other games shows that deterministic (randomness) doesn't even prevent save-scumming. (Ppl would reload and change order of moves.)
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iceiceice
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Re: Deterministic mode for save scummers!

Post by iceiceice » May 7th, 2015, 12:21 am

If you want to be competitive in multiplayer, you should just play multiplayer games against human opponents. Playing campaigns really has nothing to do with playing vs. a human opponent, campaign play will mainly teach you how to exploit the AI.

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StandYourGround
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Re: Deterministic mode for save scummers!

Post by StandYourGround » May 7th, 2015, 9:39 pm

It really depends on what you focus on when playing campaigns. I like to focus on XP distribution and using zone of control to protect valuable or weak units. Those are skills you can build in campaigns that will continue to be useful in multiplayer games.
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Jabie
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Re: Deterministic mode for save scummers!

Post by Jabie » May 18th, 2015, 11:26 am

As long as it's optional this is fine. If it's mandatory it just a PITA that will put people off.

gfgtdf
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Re: Deterministic mode for save scummers!

Post by gfgtdf » May 18th, 2015, 6:33 pm

the deterministc mode is an optional feature added in version 1.13.0 for this and other reasons:
  • for debugging it is easier to reproduce a bug if there is no random involved. So if a game is played in determistic mode and you want to report a bug you can usually just post the savefile from before the bug happened and the way to reproduce without having problems like "you need to try a few times because it only happens sometimes"
  • In sp for people who feel betrayed by the fact they they will get differnt results (better or worse) when they reload a game (for example because they forgot to move a unit). Or who want to prevent themselfves form save scumming (yes it doesn to prevent save scumming 100% since you can still do things in another order but that is more work and also not always possible if there arent that much attacks that you can do.)
  • In mp you get your random number from the server, this prevents cheats that would otherwise allow player to know their attack results earlier. But there were also requests to be able to play this game without an mp server where you would just send savefiles to each other. Since there is no neutral instance who coudl create random numbers the normal random mode cannot be used there. Note that currently the mp setup screen does not allow using teh determinsitc mode to prevent cheats.
  • Using the deterministic mode in mp results in less netowrk traffic, however i currently think this is a minor amount and not reason enough to allow using it in MP.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

Andrettin
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Re: Deterministic mode for save scummers!

Post by Andrettin » May 19th, 2015, 8:01 am

I wonder if there would be interest in a "No Randomness" mode (with hit chance being transformed into a damage modifier, so that a unit that causes 10 damage with 70% hit chance would always hit and cause 7 damage instead). I imagine that it would be something easy to implement (I can look into the code and come up with an implementation if there's interest) and to maintain.

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shadowm
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Re: Deterministic mode for save scummers!

Post by shadowm » May 19th, 2015, 9:10 am

Andrettin wrote:I wonder if there would be interest in a "No Randomness" mode (with hit chance being transformed into a damage modifier, so that a unit that causes 10 damage with 70% hit chance would always hit and cause 7 damage instead). I imagine that it would be something easy to implement (I can look into the code and come up with an implementation if there's interest) and to maintain.
There are add-ons that do things like this, but it’s definitely not something that will be ever added to mainline.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.

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