Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

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Velensk
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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by Velensk »

I do believe that in 2050 Wesnoth will still be 2D. It doesn't have to be but there's no reason for it to be anything else.

What exactly do you mean by 2.5D? The game already prioritizes which things are drawn over others.
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Crow_T
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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by Crow_T »

I like the sprites/2D graphics, they have a certain artfulness and uniqueness to them. It is what makes Wesnoth stand out from the crowd.

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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by Naron »

Velensk wrote:
What exactly do you mean by 2.5D? The game already prioritizes which things are drawn over others.
2.5D = pseudo-3D. That's what I found on Wikipedia. If Wesnoth cannot be 3D, then it may be 2.5D. That's what I meant.
Let's make one thing clear: I do not reject the 2D graphics. But I think that the game can not remain static. It should bring new elements.
In 2050, who knows what will be the graphics. And Wesnoth would look archaic if it does not adapt.

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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by ChaosRider »

Today newest games got only good graphic 3d, each new have better than earlier released games, but thats all what they have... Dont kill everything in Wesnoth for 3d graphic :P... Baldur's Gate isnt in 3d and still its great game.
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Velensk
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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by Velensk »

Wesnoth will definitely change and grow as long as people keep working but I think you're looking in the completely wrong area. There's a difference between the creep of improvement and decisions based on preference. The style of the game is a choice, and I will note that it is one that has gone through an evolution but it's not really that any choice is inherently superior to the other. Much of it, has come from the opinions of those willing to do the work. The style of art and portraits in Wesnoth used to have a decidedly more cartoony and hardlined style but then people like Kitty and Lord Bob came in and proved that they were willing to put in the work to create a more unique style. Wesnoth now has something that sets it apart from anything else you will find, done with great effort and to great effect. No matter how old it looks or will looks that will never change. I know at least one player even, who would prefer that Wesnoth's art became even less advanced and reverted to what it was before.

As far as the 2.5 thing. I don't know in what way you are imagining the idea you've read about being applicable to Wesnoth as it is in many ways already pseudo 3D. I suppose you could do something as I said ala Final Fantasy Tactics but you'd have to put everything into an isometric viewpoint but as far as I know all that would do is force all the art to be redone (and multiplied by about 4) to get something that wouldn't actually seem all that much more 3D than what can be done already (you'd be able to turn the map sideways).
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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by Wesbane »

ChaosRider wrote:Today newest games got only good graphic 3d, each new have better than earlier released games, but thats all what they have... Dont kill everything in Wesnoth for 3d graphic... Baldur's Gate isnt in 3d and still its great game.
QFT
Dugi wrote:Let me mention a few technical advantages that a 3D version of wesnoth would bring[...]
That's cool. But current wesnoth graphics has one crushing advantage over 3D. It's much simpler to made. So just anyone can create game art if he wants to. However creating a good art is other matter.
Dugi wrote:As one of those people who tell their noble bullcrap said (approximately): If you lack the motivation to reach the goal, you start to see obstacles in the way.
You got the point. Sure if someone will write a new game engine. Provide models, textures and visual effects of decent quality for all existing content devs will not scorn it.
Dugi wrote:Some people would prefer to play many of those soulless 3D games, just for the sake of appearance.
That's nice, but what advantage for wesnoth it brings if it is an open source project? Linux occupies about 1% of market yet it comes with something about three hundred different versions while windows that holds the rest comes only in a few and the only distinction between them is that if you pay less you get less features. Open source project live as long as there are people willing to contribute to it. So it is more important to have a steady base of users who care about the project than more users who just use it.
Turuk wrote:You have compared a game with funded graphics to Wesnoth, which is not an apt comparison, and your own comment highlights the challenges facing such an idea.
Comparison isn't good because both games are similar. They have nice graphics, but it is not their strongest point. In fact wesnoth is the same for strategy game what Neverwinter is for a cRPG. Their strength are offered feauters. With wesnoth like with Never you can not only play but create your own units, program ai, create your own adventures.
Giving that how many open source project born and died while wesnoth remain at good health. How many project with 3D graphics didn't reach final release. Aiming for features rather than super graphic is a good choice.

3D graphics is not bad to have, but is it really needed for a project? Not especially.
Naron wrote:Will ever be a 3D Wesnoth? Or at least pseudo-3D?
Seriously I don't know. I even don't know that anyone on this forum can give you an answer you're looking for. However designers of the game have foreseen your doubts and left an answer especially for you.

FAQ: Why doesn't Wesnoth have my favorite feature
Frequently proposed ideas: Better graphics

This bring me to another question. Do we really need a wiki if we have so friendly community that eagerly elaborates the same topic over and over again? :roll:

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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by fabi »

Wesnoth is not only 2d, it is also one of the last games relying on pixel art graphics out there.

If you compare the really nice pixel art graphics of Wesnoth to its origins in the 80s and mid 90s it does really good.

Moving to a hardware accelerated 3d system would improve the performance.
Every cheap mobile phone has enough 3d graphic power to support a turn based game.

Also, of course our pixel art artists in the community are not much of a help when doing a 3d version,
there is a huge modding community around commercial 3d games.
Thus you have a greater amount on skilled contributers if you look outside of Wesnoth's social network.

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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by Naron »

Ok, I understand. And I learned something about art. :)
Thanks for this.

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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by Noy »

Naron wrote: Will ever be a 3D Wesnoth? Or at least pseudo-3D?
No, and, No.
I suspect having one foot in the past is the best way to understand the present.

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Crow_T
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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by Crow_T »

There's always the chance that someone forks Wesnoth and replaces the current graphics with 3D ones, but that's a ton of work, especially if you want to make it look at least as good as the current gfx.

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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by Rbuck »

Crow_T wrote:There's always the chance that someone forks Wesnoth and replaces the current graphics with 3D ones.
That would take not only new graphics but also a lot of new code.
However, if someone does, I'd be one to pitch in and help with graphics.

Not that I think 3D Wesnoth is any better, but that I think I'm better at 3D.
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doofus-01
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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by doofus-01 »

Further reading on 3D Wesnoth, for those who are into that sort of thing: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=29679
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iceiceice
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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by iceiceice »

My sober assessment is that there's much better ways to improve wesnoth which would take less time, but I have to admit I would think its cool if there was like a "hologram chess" version of wesnoth like in the old starwars from when I was a kid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO6M4ngKRp0

:)

Actually I'm kinda surprised wesnoth doesn't have any "alternate skins", dwarf fortress has stuff like that and its not even open source so you can imagine how much work that is :shock: I guess its easier and more fun to just make new units and a new era, if you desire to change to look of wesnoth.

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La_vie_en_Wose
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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by La_vie_en_Wose »

shadowm wrote:Converting our sprites to textured 3D models would be pretty much the equivalent of turning a bicycle into a commercial airplane. You’d need to re-make everything by hand, possibly using the existing sprites as a general reference. And all pixel artists on board who don’t have a 3D modelling/texturing background would have to completely relearn everything from scratch.

I love this.
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Re: Will be Wesnoth forever 2D-only?

Post by Naron »

Another reason I asked about the graphics of Wesnoth is the look.
In my opinion Wesnoth looks a bit too cartoonish. Sometimes it gives me the impression of a game for kids. I apologize if this offends, I do not intend this.
If Wesnoth will remain 2D, it should look more seriously. An example is the graphics of Age of Empires. It is also 2D, but looks great.
This can be changed or it's another unchangeable thing?

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