Favorite / least favorite mainline race

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Elfarion
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Re: Favorite / least favorite mainline race

Post by Elfarion »

Since I don't play MP, I can't talk about factions. But I like humans. They have the greatest variety of unit, so there's no race you can't fight with humans. When I played NR, I really hated Drakes. Expensive units, no healing and no favourable terrain. As enemies I hate saurians, those pesky guerilleros. (Sorry, Hulavuta :wink: )
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gooby
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Re: Favorite / least favorite mainline race

Post by gooby »

I tend to hate Saurians as enemies too because they may manage to kill one or more of my best veteran units before I wipe their forces out.

That said, I generally don't like playing Saurians.

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Chief_Chasso
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Re: Favorite / least favorite mainline race

Post by Chief_Chasso »

I don't play MP, so I'm speaking SP here. Favorite mainline race would probably be Humans, simply because the diversity and breadth of unit types. But an honorable mention should go out to Elves. The Elves race doesn't have the breadth of the Humans, but it certainly has the depth with fighters, healers, scouts.

Least favorite would be Mermen. Even in water, these units seem to me to be really weak.
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gooby
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Re: Favorite / least favorite mainline race

Post by gooby »

Chief_Chasso wrote:I don't play MP, so I'm speaking SP here. Favorite mainline race would probably be Humans, simply because the diversity and breadth of unit types. But an honorable mention should go out to Elves. The Elves race doesn't have the breadth of the Humans, but it certainly has the depth with fighters, healers, scouts.

Least favorite would be Mermen. Even in water, these units seem to me to be really weak.
They're like sea-elves basically. The Fighter line becomes pretty durable as it advances. Netcasters are also a great asset to the Merfolk as they are themselves pretty hardy and reduce the damage for everyone else.

roidanton
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Re: Favorite / least favorite mainline race

Post by roidanton »

gooby wrote:
Chief_Chasso wrote:I don't play MP, so I'm speaking SP here. Favorite mainline race would probably be Humans, simply because the diversity and breadth of unit types. But an honorable mention should go out to Elves. The Elves race doesn't have the breadth of the Humans, but it certainly has the depth with fighters, healers, scouts.

Least favorite would be Mermen. Even in water, these units seem to me to be really weak.
They're like sea-elves basically. The Fighter line becomes pretty durable as it advances. Netcasters are also a great asset to the Merfolk as they are themselves pretty hardy and reduce the damage for everyone else.
The mermen that you get in the Default Era are really not that great. But if you play Sylvans in MP, then you have Merman Initiate which levels into a healer with a decent arcane attack, Netcasters and two fighter lines. It gives you full flexibility on land and water, basically.

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TheEmptyLord
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Re: Favorite / least favorite mainline race

Post by TheEmptyLord »

When I play with mainline factions, I usually am playing World Conquest. As such, my picks will be geared towards that.

I'd definitely say Dwarves are my favourite defenders, but overall I find low mp and defense a hindrance if I cant find a nice mountain range or if I have to retreat (or chase). One of my top three definitely though.

Loyalists are great for defense and offense. They have their spear-walls with cheap units for bulk defence and their HI for important spots. The same units have a nice offense, and their horsemen/mages certainly add to that power. Overall my second favourite. They has their weakness, but during the day they are near unstoppable.

Finally I have to give my favourite to the northerners. Cheap, strong units with a good counter to undead/armoured units, and poison. Oh how I love that poison. My main strategy with them is a line of grunts, after the enemy attacks the assassins slip in and poison all the strong units, then grunts and archers to finish it off. Works like a charm :)

Oddly when I first began playing Wesnoth (probably 6-7 years ago) and for a long time since, I've always loved the elves best. I mean, two units with 70% defense on one of the most common terrains without any bad resistances? Yes please. Over time maybe my play style has changed, but I don't really like elves anymore. At all :\ They are still balanced, still good units to play, I just don't enjoy them anymore. Ah well.

I should mention that I believe all mainline factions are very well balanced, this is just my personal preferences in units and combinations.

Dan-the-Terrible
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Re: Favorite / least favorite mainline race

Post by Dan-the-Terrible »

I have a sort of love/hate relationship with the rebel faction. I find elves annoying in general; tall, willowy, long lived, and seemingly good at everything, elves have been portrayed as the leet heroes of so many fantasy stories they make me want to puke. But, in MP I feel the rebels are really the strongest faction. A great variety of units capable of doing any damage type but cold, great support from the healing, slowing, shamans, quick archers and superfast riders, awesome defensive tanks in the woses. In forested terrain rebels are unstoppable. And they are quite decent anywhere else except water.

Much as I dislike elves, I am rather fond of dwarves. Short, grumpy, universally the butt of jokes, dwarves have a sort of stoic underdog feel to them that appeals to me. The Knalgan faction is probably my emotional favorite, but I don't really think they are as good as the rebels in multiplayer. Dwarves are famous for defending in hills and mountains, but not really a lot better than most other units, getting 70%/60% defense instead of the usual 60%/50%. In open and particularly wooded terrain, they really suck, getting a pathetic 30% defense. Granted, they get a move advantage in forest, hills, and especially mountains, but this move advantage is rarely much use in multiplayer. Multiplayer maps tend to be mostly flat with small pockets of rough terrain, so the occasional movement point saved running over non-flat terrain rarely makes up for the slow 4 point base move. Knalgans have no healer or regenerating units, no water capable allies, no cold, flame, or arcane attacks. The lack of flexibility makes them easy to play, but frustratingly lacking in options.

Northerners are kind of fun, but sort of bland, nothing much standing out about them. I do wish there were more mainline campaigns for orcs. In multiplayer, they are the basic horde, throwing cheap grunts and archers at the enemy until he is overwhelmed.

Undead are fascinating, with lots of weird capabilities, but overall their units tend to be frustratingly weak. Inexperienced opponents can find them a handful, but once you figure out how to take advantage of their weaknesses, they aren't much of a threat. They are pretty hopeless vs rebels. Still, like the orcs, I wish there were more mainline campaigns featuring undead.

Neither loyalists nor drakes are very interesting to me, I have played them a few times to get the feel of how to counter them, but just don't find them fun.

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TheEmptyLord
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Re: Favorite / least favorite mainline race

Post by TheEmptyLord »

Tbh I like the elf personality, long-liveliness, and backstories better than most other factions in Wesnoth. My only dislike for them is in gameplay. Mainly, I think, my dislike stems from the fact that they have no resistances (-10 to arcane), and focus far more on defense. Because of this, they are much more prone to being pushed about by the RNG, and the RNG has never liked me much ;). They are a nice faction, and I believe they are balanced with the other mainline factions, but too much luck dependent for my tastes.

With my other favorite factions: Dwarves you have constant good resistances, Orcs you have cheap units with decent hp, Loyalists you have nice defense and a very good offense (preferably during the day), with elves you have decent units with no -resistances (cept arcane), and yet they have 60-70% defense on one of the most common terrains. Its great, normally, the only units who can actually negate the defense with marksman or magical mostly have it on a ranged attack, and all of the elves have a ranged attack. (And the ones who need magical to take down the most, the ones with 70% defense, have either 5-4 or slows.) So, again, I don't think they are unbalanced. The only issue is that the RNG controls if your units get hit, not a damage reduction of resistances or high hp/mass units. With WC that much dependance of luck gets you killed.

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taptap
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Re: Favorite / least favorite mainline race

Post by taptap »

The only thing that saves Wesnoth mainline (UMC is often better) from being completely LotR derivative are saurians / drakes / nagas. One thing which is completely half-assed in Wesnoth are Woses. Take LotR ents, rename them to woses, which is - surprise! - the name of some other wood people in LotR.

I love saurians in particular and according to some online test I am one :). I also have a soft spot for nagas and drake fighters.
gooby wrote:
Dixie wrote:Well, they're rough, sturdy, grumpy hills people who like a good drink, are good engineers and lost their kingdom...
Most of those are stereotypical traits of a ... certain ethnic group. (Those Israelis build really cool robots.)
Well, Tolkien did play with but sometimes subverted stereotypes - something hard to grasp for some of his readers / interpreters. They lost their kingdom (and a place called Moria as in the temple hill), live in Exile / elsewhere with a longing to come back to Moria, speak a semitic language, their love of material wealth brings out their worst side / endangers them etc. - yet they aren't harassed jews, but sturdy dwarves. What I find far more disturbing is the association of orcs with Mongols / Turks both in the book but even more so in the imagery of the film. (Think about composite bows, Siege of Vienna, holy league, orc physiognomy - riders legs, "mongol-type features" acc. to Tolkien, bad guys wielding scimitars ... ) I wish Wesnoth had someone with the creative mind of China Mieville when it started out to create its own canon etc. instead of succumbing to most of the standard fantasy tropes but of course if you start out with few art assets the placeholders need to refer to sth. people can relate to.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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Sanae_Kotiya
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Re: Favorite / least favorite mainline race

Post by Sanae_Kotiya »

Totally agreed - this is something that comes up in my d&d games quite a bit too. Originality is a hard thing to come by in fantasy games, and often when it's present it's badly done - but every now and then there's some sweet deliciousness. At least Dwarf Fortress made dwarves interesting again.
For what it's worth, I'm also an unabashed Mieville fan.

As for the thread topic, my favorite faction is probably Loyalists, for their flexibility and because I'm growing to really like cavalry. Least favorite would be Northerners, I don't really care for flooding the map with a horde of cheap, weak units that seemingly can't actually kill anything. They're good at surrounding enemies with a wall of meat, but they're terrible at concentration of force.

gooby
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Re: Favorite / least favorite mainline race

Post by gooby »

Sanae_Kotiya wrote:Least favorite would be Northerners, I don't really care for flooding the map with a horde of cheap, weak units that seemingly can't actually kill anything. They're good at surrounding enemies with a wall of meat, but they're terrible at concentration of force.
Depends on what you recruit and who your opponents are.

Even Goblin Spearmen are dangerous against cavalry (esp. at night).

oaq
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Re: Favorite / least favorite mainline race

Post by oaq »

Wesnoth elves are pale skinned blondes. Orcs have dark skins and hair. The two don't like each other. Which real world ideology does this remind me of?
Well, weary as I am of the unceasingly bizarre real-life expectation that pale folk like me cringe ostentatiously in the presence of the dark (who, to be fair, can hardly be blamed for the psychoses of the pale), I actually kinda like the good guys' being pale. It represents a pleasant escape from a 21st-century Western world gone utterly mad.

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