Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

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TheScribe
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by TheScribe » October 16th, 2012, 8:48 pm

Well, my opinion is we should make it parallel effective: basically humans live on land, and our average dodge rate on land is 40%, and on our farm we have 40% as well; dwarves live in caves, and their dadge rate is 50%, and on their farm they should be able to get 50%. It makes lot of sense that each race thrive on their own homeland equally, and obviously, in respect to "their own terrian", dwarves do it better than humans.
All I was really saying is that it makes sense both ways, so it doesn't really need to be worried about. In the case where two things both work, follow the one that works best with balance, IMHO.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 16th, 2012, 9:23 pm

All I was really saying is that it makes sense both ways, so it doesn't really need to be worried about. In the case where two things both work, follow the one that works best with balance, IMHO.
Regardless. So here we have:
Horserider have good cold resistances solved, but the description is not yet added.
Drakes -30% arcane resistances solved;

And the rest of them remain unknown. Dwarvish enigma can be argued and postponed indefintely; trolls in the world of Azeroth might fit the current resistances more properly, since they are made of flesh and bones, rather than wesnoth, which is rock; fencer's 10% cold resiatances is [censored], dunno why.

moving on:
(5)Trees do not have traits. They are living beings, not dead ones.

(6)Undead units have 60% dodge rate on fungus... :annoyed: WTF does this setting come from?

(7)As dead or half dead beings, liches does not have so good physical resistances as skeletons do, but they look much the same. Could they still feel hurt anymore without flesh left on their body, even if their soul is retained? :hmm: Ok, good, ASSUME if they still could, then WHY does ancient liches have low physical resistances as well??? :evil: They lived centries of years, and they definetly cannot feel physical hurt anymore--All their muscle and flesh decayed, which took away their pain peripheral as well, even including their brain, their EVERY basic organs...Their skeleton is only a container for preserving their souls. In addition, they fear fire and resist cold on a same level as skeletons do, which indicate they are no human kind already.

(8) Ghosts resist fire damage. Notice: I am not doubting about gaming balance, and I understood they will not perish readily in this way. BUT, in which point does it make any sense?

(9)Orcish assasin has a "marksman" throwing knife. ROTFLOL~ :lol2: You are a human rogue? Go the heck! A human assasin? Go the heck as well! Lowly unintelligent orcs have marksmanship, while you the professional guys don't!
Last edited by AxalaraFlame on October 16th, 2012, 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by shadowm » October 16th, 2012, 9:40 pm

AxalaraFlame wrote:(7)As dead or half dead beings, liches does not have so good physical resistances as skeletons do, but they look much the same. Could they still feel hurt anymore without flesh left on their body, even if their soul is retained? :hmm: Ok, good, ASSUME if they still could, then WHY does ancient liches have low physical resistances as well???
30% pierce, -10% impact, 10% blade. That doesn’t seem too low compared to living armorless humanoids (0% for all three damage types) and it still allows factions lacking magic users (Northerners, Knalgans) to deal with them effectively. And the impact weakness is consistent with other skeletal units (Skeletons have -20% resistance to impact).

Yes, balance.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 16th, 2012, 9:46 pm

30% pierce, -10% impact, 10% blade. That doesn’t seem too low compared to living armorless humanoids (0% for all three damage types) and it still allows factions lacking magic users (Northerners, Knalgans) to deal with them effectively. And the impact weakness is consistent with other skeletal units (Skeletons have -20% resistance to impact).

Yes, balance.
Yes, balance. Or nobody would get a necromancer from then on.

Lich has 10 blade, 30 pierce, -10 impact. Standarized skeleton has 40 blade, 60 pierce, and -20 impact. There is a lot of differences. I guess the oringinal creator of lich in wesnoth tends to make them having half physical resistances as skeletons do? :hmm: If that is the way, maybe we should buff lich with 10% blade?

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Dixie » October 16th, 2012, 10:38 pm

You know, I always interpreted the fungus terrain not as mushroom farms, but rather as giant-mushroom forests (or meadows). Hence, more cover -> more defence.

And I hope you enjoy it, because I doubt "realism" will make any of these changes happen in mainline. Gameplay trumps realism. It's always possible to find a plausible explanation (especially in a fantasy setting); achieving game balance is much harder. Feel free to make your own "realist era" or whatever, though.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Telchin » October 17th, 2012, 7:51 am

Undead units have 60% dodge rate on fungus... WTF does this setting come from?
This is actually explained in the description of the fmushroom grove terrain as the undead liking the decay. To elaborate: Unlike plants, fungi sustain on decomposing organic matter. So we can assume that most fungal groves are located in places with access to dead animals or plants (animals are more likely, as mushroom groves are usually underground). Undead are powered by death magic, so in places with high concentration of dead thing they feel at home and therefore fight better.
Trees do not have traits. They are living beings, not dead ones.
Maybe they reproduce by budding, so they're all clones and thus without personal differences? :lol2: Most likely it's just another way of gameplay trumping realism (Woses have brutally high stats, so even without traits, they are stronger than most units of the same level with traits). Note that any "realism" in case of magical walking trees is moot anyway

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 18th, 2012, 10:38 pm

Telchin wrote:
Undead units have 60% dodge rate on fungus... WTF does this setting come from?
This is actually explained in the description of the fmushroom grove terrain as the undead liking the decay. To elaborate: Unlike plants, fungi sustain on decomposing organic matter. So we can assume that most fungal groves are located in places with access to dead animals or plants (animals are more likely, as mushroom groves are usually underground). Undead are powered by death magic, so in places with high concentration of dead thing they feel at home and therefore fight better.
Trees do not have traits. They are living beings, not dead ones.
Maybe they reproduce by budding, so they're all clones and thus without personal differences? :lol2: Most likely it's just another way of gameplay trumping realism (Woses have brutally high stats, so even without traits, they are stronger than most units of the same level with traits). Note that any "realism" in case of magical walking trees is moot anyway
Hmm...budding. Sounds more reasonable if other creatures breed by eggs shall work as well they do.
That fungus thing is rather complicated. I do not think it would be correct, unless...if it is right, let them regenerate on fungus by absorbing the power of dead would be more reasonable. What's more, mushroom forests only need to be located at dark wet places. Taking the dead corpses as nutrition isn't necessary for them to thrive.

Besides, realism is not mandatary, which I noticed as well, or the gaming balance can no longer stands. But in some cases it can be improved, so I believe it is worthy to discuss about it. i.e. the "marksman" and slowly-hillmoving assasin. I believe we can improve these units, by a rather realistic way.

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Crow_T » October 20th, 2012, 12:28 am

The biggest issue IMO is the smallfoot movetype, it covers too broad of a range of units- mages, spearman, bowman, thugs, most human units. Fortuneatly, I can modify whatever I want to, pretty easily, putting my money where my mouth is. So can anyone with an objection btw ;)

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 20th, 2012, 6:31 am

Crow_T wrote:The biggest issue IMO is the smallfoot movetype, it covers too broad of a range of units- mages, spearman, bowman, thugs, most human units. Fortuneatly, I can modify whatever I want to, pretty easily, putting my money where my mouth is. So can anyone with an objection btw ;)
Hmm :hmm:
I always believe that wesnoth humans and outlaw humans should have different movement types, instead of applying smallfoot everywhere. Outlaws usually live in the wild to escape from tyrants. They should be more adapted to these places IMO.
Unfortunately we dont have much space to improve on them now, or they will move more like orcs or other creatures.

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Colouredbox » October 20th, 2012, 8:51 am

AxalaraFlame wrote:
Crow_T wrote:The biggest issue IMO is the smallfoot movetype, it covers too broad of a range of units- mages, spearman, bowman, thugs, most human units. Fortuneatly, I can modify whatever I want to, pretty easily, putting my money where my mouth is. So can anyone with an objection btw ;)
Hmm :hmm:
I always believe that wesnoth humans and outlaw humans should have different movement types, instead of applying smallfoot everywhere. Outlaws usually live in the wild to escape from tyrants. They should be more adapted to these places IMO.
Unfortunately we dont have much space to improve on them now, or they will move more like orcs or other creatures.
Actually many of the outlaws have different movement types than smallfoot.

Elusivefoots (thieves and footpads) are a bit more mobile at shallow water, swamp and snow.
Also poachers are faster at swamps.
Then there's thugs. Thugs are normal people who aren't just always at the bright side of the law. So I don't think thugs should be faster at the wild.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 21st, 2012, 12:54 am

Elusivefoots (thieves and footpads) are a bit more mobile at shallow water, swamp and snow.
Also poachers are faster at swamps.
Then there's thugs. Thugs are normal people who aren't just always at the bright side of the law. So I don't think thugs should be faster at the wild.
That makes lot of sense. Another branch problem solved.
Besides, poachers should not simply move faster at swamps, while when elusive foot applied to orc assasins, they should still move as fast as other orcs do on hills and mountains. So I suppose elusive foot should be more variable.

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Dixie » October 21st, 2012, 6:09 pm

Hum. Elusive foot is not the orcish movetype. I'm not sure what it is called, but it certainly is not elusive foot. Elusive is the fencer's movetype, which is shared by orcish assassin, thieves and footpads. Also, poachers are note elusive foots either: IIRC they are smallfoots with an exception to swamp terrains.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 24th, 2012, 1:15 am

Dixie wrote:Hum. Elusive foot is not the orcish movetype. I'm not sure what it is called, but it certainly is not elusive foot. Elusive is the fencer's movetype, which is shared by orcish assassin, thieves and footpads. Also, poachers are note elusive foots either: IIRC they are smallfoots with an exception to swamp terrains.
It is not. What I am doubting about is why don't an orc, regardless of how good he dodge, move as fast as other orcs do on their preferred terrians.
Poacher is somehow good at finding cover in forest and swamp, but they are basically smallfooter

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by em3 » October 24th, 2012, 11:08 am

AxalaraFlame wrote:What I am doubting about is why don't an orc, regardless of how good he dodge, move as fast as other orcs do on their preferred terrians.
Poacher is somehow good at finding cover in forest and swamp, but they are basically smallfooter
Because regular orcs charge ahead, whereas assassin has to sneak stealthily.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 24th, 2012, 3:26 pm

em3 wrote:
AxalaraFlame wrote:What I am doubting about is why don't an orc, regardless of how good he dodge, move as fast as other orcs do on their preferred terrians.
Poacher is somehow good at finding cover in forest and swamp, but they are basically smallfooter
Because regular orcs charge ahead, whereas assassin has to sneak stealthily.
Hm..."sneak stealthily", does not contradict with "move fast on hills like all orcs", is that right?

Anyway, we get some new ones, which does not much related to campaign and default units balance:
1. Red mage and Red mage2.0 and Red Mage3.0 are all neutral. I really don't want to give much bitchering about it, but may I remind all the mages, they sleep in the night and work in the day.
2. Cuttlefish's ink deals poison damage, not slow damage. As rather common sense, the ink that used by cuttlefish is for evading the enemy and slowing them down from hunting them; this poison is rather ridiculous. What's more, as we know, cuttlefish regenerates really fast. I suggest to give them less hp and regenerate ability.
3. Fire Dragon is actually a very lame boss... :lol2: Very lame hp and attacks, thought it looks awesome
4. Clashers and clashers2.0 and clashers3.0 cannot walk on lava. Technically I don't suppose they would sank in it.
5. The crossbow is actually a very slowly-reloading weapon, while with that roughly built crossbow, orcish crossbowman shot three strikes. For slurbow it is understandable, since they might get some repeating crossbows. But technically lv2 crossbowman does not have any possibility to build a repeating crossbow by their own.
6. Lancer charge three times :augh: No more bullshix, just one question: how did they make it?
7. Human advancd speara strongly resist pierce. It works for lance, ok; for spears, understandable, since they are more "experienced" than lowly gobos and spearmen; for arrows, ugh :augh: ...How did they make it?
8. Human Heavy infantry line has always been dealing far greater damage than troll line. I just wanna know how much of human's limits have these guys broken by digging their supernatural strength potential!? :augh:
9. Rats have 2-4 attack. Regardless of their alignment is chaotic, neutral, or even lawful, I shall tell u guys that they will never get any nerf of buff for different periods of time in a day.
Last edited by AxalaraFlame on October 27th, 2012, 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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