Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

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Telchin
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Telchin » October 16th, 2012, 2:10 pm

Thank you sir. I appreciated that. Moving on?
No problem. Sorry for inconvinience. :)

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Re: Facts of Foolish and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Colouredbox » October 16th, 2012, 2:12 pm

AxalaraFlame wrote:
How can you strengthen their mobility on fungus when their movement penalty is only 1 already. Fungus teleporting? :lol2:

Also some forests don't have much shrubs and bushes.

I don't know why you try to make this game realistic, when it would only hurt it by creating balance problems and taking away flavour from units

Sorry :doh: my bad. Strengthen their dodge rate to 50%, since they live in the cave and feed by mushroom farms, it makes lot of sense.

I am not trying to focus on realism. what I mean is, we can make it rather more realistic than the current version, while the balance could remain stable
50% fungus defence and movement cost of 2 on forest could potentially totally destroy balance of some mainline maps when other side is knalgan alliance.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by TheScribe » October 16th, 2012, 2:25 pm

Strengthen their dodge rate to 50%, since they live in the cave and feed by mushroom farms, it makes lot of sense.
Well, think about it. Do mushrooms offer any protection like high ground and trees do? No. If anything, it'd seem to slow them down trying not to step on their food. :lol2:
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 16th, 2012, 2:31 pm

Well, he is better archer and is faster though. Also, level1 Orcish ruler has better melee than level1 grunt (7-3 vs 9-2), so you can say that he proves his strenght on level1 and then focuses more on leadership qualities than on muscles. This seems to be a theme with all leadership units, that they are weaker than pure fighters of their level to balance their ability (most blatantly expressed with Elvish capatain and Elvish hero).
Undoubtedly, orc soverign is stronger than normal warlords. But my point is it can be made EXTREMELY strong, since orc soverign scarcely appear in campaigns. In HTTT, it appeared once, and you don't need to kill it; in UTBS, it appeared once, but comparing to the tough desert elves, killing one individual strong unit is not too hard to stuck the campaign. In DW, it appeared once; but assaulting and killing him during daytime at nightmare level is still a doable thing. In SOTBE, you would be willing to control a very strong orcish leader; and besides of that, the campaign focuses on huge-crowd strategy, in which way leader's importance is considerably weakened.
Give them 12-4melee and 8-3range could be rather funny in gameplay, but hardly disturb gaming balance.
Now things that bother me:
1. Horsman and Cavalryman resistances to blade and impact. I suppose they represent their armor (as evidenced by the more armored cavalryman having higher resistance), but why their armor gives higher resistance to impact than to blade, when the opposite is true for HIs? (Impact should be better against armor than blade, as impacts can dent it). And if this is somehow related to their horses (I don't know much about horse physiology) than why don't Elvish scouts have similiar ressistances (they already share vulnerability to pierce)
Agreed. Maybe nerfing down lv1 horse rider's impact and blade resistances to the same level of horseman, and add 10% physical resistances to them when they are leveled makes more sense? Ofc, lv1 riders shall have more hp if resistances are nerfed.
2. Skeleton's vulnerability to fire. I understand that this is more for balance as skeletons are already highly resistant to half of the damage types, but do bones even burn? (I have no medical expertise) I guess that maybe the magic powering them might be said to be cold-based, but then why don't WCs and Ghouls have same vulnerability?
Explained above. However, ghoul's resistance really make very little sense. Resist arcane, but made of dark magic. And resist fire, because the toxins in their body is inflameble? Hmmm. At most no resistances could be trustworthy.
3. Why aren't Gryphons and Mermen vulnerable to arcane? They are different classes of animal smashed together (bird-mammal and fish-mammal, respectively) and thus seem to rather magical than mundane.
Because in the world of wesnoth, it has had gryphoons and mermans as very common kind of creatures?
1. Gryphoon lay eggs. They are not mammals.
2. Mermans and humans obviously have a same ancestor, but one branch evelove on land, another evelove on sea.
Query: Thus, why don’t mermans have 20% resistances rather 0%? And what does Gryphoon’s 10% indicate?
4. Wolves use same movetype as Wolfriders. Said movetype makes sense for orcs and goblins, but I would expect wild wolves to have arcane resistance (they are mundane real-life animals) and movement cost 1 on forests (wolves live in forests, don't they?)
Very reasonable. But wolf riders share nearly the same movement type as orcs do. Besides, wolfriders focus on “riders”. If the goblin could no longer resist more damage, the wolf is damned, This 0% resistance is reluctant, but makes sense.
5. Orcs crosbows are said to be either stolen from humans or inferior knock-offs. At the same time they use them for their primary archers. Meanwhile human archers use (long)bows and crossbows are relegated to emergency weapons of otherwise melee-prefering units (Dragoon, Duelist, Lieutnant). Apparently, orcs can use stolen crossbows more effectively than the humans they stole them from.
Crossbows are built by themselves, Slurbows are stolen. I am not quite sure why do they set it like this, since the crossbow is quite a primary weapon, and it shot rather slowly; slurbow could shot faster, since it is stolen from humans, it can be a repeating crossbow. Besides of all these, why don’t humans use crossbow and why does lowly orcs use crossbow is still rather baffling.
Last edited by AxalaraFlame on October 16th, 2012, 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 16th, 2012, 2:36 pm

TheScribe wrote:
Strengthen their dodge rate to 50%, since they live in the cave and feed by mushroom farms, it makes lot of sense.
Well, think about it. Do mushrooms offer any protection like high ground and trees do? No. If anything, it'd seem to slow them down trying not to step on their food. :lol2:
Yes, it do. :wink: They live in caves and thrive in caves, and now they harvest their food they thrive on it as well

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Hulavuta » October 16th, 2012, 2:44 pm

Just an FYI, when you are closing a tag you put the slash before the word quote, not after.

Code: Select all

[quote] blah blah [/quote]
as opposed to

Code: Select all

[quote] this [quote/]
This is referring to the post above the post above me.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by TheScribe » October 16th, 2012, 3:16 pm

AxalaraFlame wrote:
TheScribe wrote: Well, think about it. Do mushrooms offer any protection like high ground and trees do? No. If anything, it'd seem to slow them down trying not to step on their food. :lol2:
Yes, it do. :wink: They live in caves and thrive in caves, and now they harvest their food they thrive on it as well
I understand that they thrive in it, but if they have to avoid stepping on and squashing their only source of food, wouldn't that reduce their ability to fight?

Try to fight in a semi-confined space covered in things you don't want to step on. It doesn't work out that well...
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Colouredbox » October 16th, 2012, 3:29 pm

Now things that bother me:
1. Horsman and Cavalryman resistances to blade and impact. I suppose they represent their armor (as evidenced by the more armored cavalryman having higher resistance), but why their armor gives higher resistance to impact than to blade, when the opposite is true for HIs? (Impact should be better against armor than blade, as impacts can dent it). And if this is somehow related to their horses (I don't know much about horse physiology) than why don't Elvish scouts have similiar ressistances (they already share vulnerability to pierce)
I think the whole impact=bad against horses thing might actually be somewhat realistic.

Wesnoths horses are weak to pierce.
What weapons pierce? Spears. And spears are effective against horsemen (in real life) because of the reach spears offer.

Wesnoths horses are good at dealing with impact damage.
What things do impact damage? Maces, mauls and fists. All of these have very limited reach, so hitting the horses rider is extremely difficult. Thus horsemen are good against impact.

Blade weapons are kinda like impact weapons, but slightly better.

The elvish scout thing is probably just unit flavour and balance. Also they don't have armor which could be an explanation.
Agreed. Maybe nerfing down lv1 horse rider's impact and blade resistances to the same level of horseman, and add 10% physical resistances to them when they are leveled makes more sense? Ofc, lv1 riders shall have more hp if resistances are nerfed.
I think this was even considered when they nerfed cavalryman.

Strengthen their dodge rate to 50%, since they live in the cave and feed by mushroom farms, it makes lot of sense.
They already gain a defence bonus from mushrooms by the way. (40% dodge compared to 30% forest and flat)
Dwarves just aren't that good at dodging, thus it's not 50%.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Dugi » October 16th, 2012, 4:02 pm

Gryphoon lay eggs. They are not mammals.
Small detail. Two kinds of mammals that lay eggs do exist. From the other side, they have six members, while all vertebrates except fishes and mutants have four members. They should obviously be magical creatures. But let's assume that they were created by ancient biotechnologists by genetic manipulation (this cannot be done by selective breeding, so maybe by some cross-species breeds). In fantasy literature (speaking specifically of Чистовик from Сергей Лукяненко; Final Draft from Sergei Lukyanenko, when written in English), this can be done without microscopes and proper laboratories.
2. Mermans and humans obviously have a same ancestor, but one branch evelove on land, another evelove on sea.
Mermen were also made by cross-species breeding. Because this was not so easy to be done by regular means (humans are more distant from fishes than eagles from horses in the case of gryphons), some magic was involved, so their magic resistance dropped from 20% to 0%. This was done by a group of humans whose island was slowly sinking, as the only mean to survive (because they were not experienced enough to build ships that can travel far, magic is easier).

But there can be plenties of other questions and there is always a possible explanation, but as a result, you create so much lore that you would be able to write a book named Wesnothpedia.
Quick questions and explanations:
Spoiler:

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Telchin » October 16th, 2012, 4:22 pm

However, ghoul's resistance really make very little sense. Resist arcane, but made of dark magic. And resist fire, because the toxins in their body is inflameble? Hmmm. At most no resistances could be trustworthy.
I'm not sure if (and where) it's mentioned in game, but I believe that Ghouls are supposed to be people turned undead while alive (for reference links to some old threads about undead in Writer's forum), so they are undead enough to be immune to poison etc., but alive enough to be resistant to arcane and unable to move underwater. Most likely it's just another balance measure (so undead have some counter-unit to arcane attacks). I hope I'm not annoying with those constant links to old threads, but it seemed topical for necromancy related units :)

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Drakefriend » October 16th, 2012, 4:44 pm

The Sovereigns are not leaders because they are the strongest of all orcs, but they are more then simple brutes- they have the cunning, charisma and prowess that they stay in power, as demonstrated with the Leadership ability.

Dwarves are obviously not slowed by forests because they want to get out very quickly! :D
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 16th, 2012, 8:18 pm

Drakefriend wrote:The Sovereigns are not leaders because they are the strongest of all orcs, but they are more then simple brutes- they have the cunning, charisma and prowess that they stay in power, as demonstrated with the Leadership ability.

Dwarves are obviously not slowed by forests because they want to get out very quickly! :D
:lol2:
Well well...elves want to get out caves very quickly, humans want to get out of water very quickly, orcs want to get out of fungus very quickly...it seems that only DWARVES did the best getting rid of their least favored terrian :mrgreen:

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 16th, 2012, 8:19 pm

Dugi wrote:Gryphoon lay eggs. They are not mammals.Small detail. Two kinds of mammals that lay eggs do exist. From the other side, they have six members, while all vertebrates except fishes and mutants have four members. They should obviously be magical creatures. But let's assume that they were created by ancient biotechnologists by genetic manipulation (this cannot be done by selective breeding, so maybe by some cross-species breeds). In fantasy literature (speaking specifically of Чистовик from Сергей Лукяненко; Final Draft from Sergei Lukyanenko, when written in English), this can be done without microscopes and proper laboratories.
2. Mermans and humans obviously have a same ancestor, but one branch evelove on land, another evelove on sea.
Mermen were also made by cross-species breeding. Because this was not so easy to be done by regular means (humans are more distant from fishes than eagles from horses in the case of gryphons), some magic was involved, so their magic resistance dropped from 20% to 0%. This was done by a group of humans whose island was slowly sinking, as the only mean to survive (because they were not experienced enough to build ships that can travel far, magic is easier).

But there can be plenties of other questions and there is always a possible explanation, but as a result, you create so much lore that you would be able to write a book named Wesnothpedia.
Quick questions and explanations:
Spoiler:
Dugi...don't... :augh:
TheScribe wrote:
TheScribe wrote: Well, think about it. Do mushrooms offer any protection like high ground and trees do? No. If anything, it'd seem to slow them down trying not to step on their food. :lol2:
Yes, it do. :wink: They live in caves and thrive in caves, and now they harvest their food they thrive on it as well
I understand that they thrive in it, but if they have to avoid stepping on and squashing their only source of food, wouldn't that reduce their ability to fight?

Try to fight in a semi-confined space covered in things you don't want to step on. It doesn't work out that well...
Well, my opinion is we should make it parallel effective: basically humans live on land, and our average dodge rate on land is 40%, and on our farm we have 40% as well; dwarves live in caves, and their dadge rate is 50%, and on their farm they should be able to get 50%. It makes lot of sense that each race thrive on their own homeland equally, and obviously, in respect to "their own terrian", dwarves do it better than humans.
Last edited by AxalaraFlame on October 16th, 2012, 8:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by shadowm » October 16th, 2012, 8:22 pm

You can quote and respond to multiple people in a single post, you know.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 16th, 2012, 8:25 pm

shadowmaster wrote:You can quote and respond to multiple people in a single post, you know.
Sorry...forget it :doh: I am fixing it
Just an FYI, when you are closing a tag you put the slash before the word quote, not after.


Code: Select all
blah blah
as opposed to


Code: Select all
this This is referring to the post above the post above me.
Thanks bro, I get it now :wink:

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