Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

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TheScribe
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by TheScribe » October 24th, 2012, 3:37 pm

3. Fire Dragon is actually a very lame boss... Very lame hp and attacks, thought it looks awesome
Level 5 leadership accounts for that. IMO
8. Human Heavy infantry line has always been dealing far greater damage than troll line.
Well, the troll has regenerates, thus the sake of balance.
I just wanna know how much of human's limits have these guys broken by digging their supernatural strength potential!?
Now for the realisim answer: A mace gives great momentum when striking, as opposed to a trolls fist. The weight of the mace causes the damage.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Hulavuta » October 24th, 2012, 3:41 pm

...Okay, to me it seems like now you are just complaining for the sake of complaining. Most of your issues are just so random and insignificant, I think you're just nitpicking at this point.

5 seems like the only one that is even a credible issue, and something very similar has been brought up before: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37069
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by 8680 » October 24th, 2012, 6:02 pm

AxalaraFlame wrote:1. Red mage and Red mage2.0 and Red Mage3.0 are all neutral. I really don't want to give much bitchering about it, but may I remind all the mages, they sleep in the night and work in the day.
See also....
AxalaraFlame wrote:4. Clashers and clashers2.0 and clashers3.0 cannot walk on lava. Technically I don't suppose they would sank in it.
They sink because of their armor.
Drake Clasher unit type description wrote:Their thick armor, while compensating for the drakes’ natural weakness against spears and arrows, is so heavy and restricting that they are not able to fly or muster enough breath to use their inner fire.

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 26th, 2012, 3:18 pm

For the mage thing, I suppose it is not exactly true. Alignments is only an inherent characteristics, rather than emotional potential they released regardless law and order. Technically I don't think that "Mage Psychology" could stand. But anyway, a good post :) Many points are too dependent. IMO the only reasonable explanation for their neutral alignments is that they have good command of magic, and which magic when the spells are casted in the forms of seeker-rocket fireballs, they would not be affected by the time of a day. But it would be contradictary with other lawful and chaotic mage line. Hmm...how to explain that? :hmm: My idea is that the magic itself the used are period-of-time dependant. White mage's light beam reply on sunlight(or light source) to cast, dark adepts's dark spells requires darkness. While fire mages use fireballs; they are simply made by casts, not replying on any other factors, which is comparatively rather independant.

But personally I would be willing to set them as lawful units.


For drake things, no spoliers or explanations are revealed in the official introductions. Technically, drakes are the greatest weapon wielders and builders. Their armor and weapons are made of great endurance, smelted in the lava itself. And due to their inherent fire-fonded magical characteristics, suck in lava is not very possible. They might not be able to "stand" on it, but they can "swim" in it. Well that is personal ideas as wel. hm.

For the cuttlefish thing, I strongly insist I am right.

For HI vs Trolls, well, trolls are far stronger than humans (not whelps, notice, not whelps) on lv2 and lv3. They are at least taller than 4 meters, weighed more than 5 tons(assume their density is the rock density, 2.7*10^3kg/m^3). How could it be possible that a normal humans (though rather tough) would be able to wield even heavier wepons than these gigantic do? Comparing to that damned big hammar, our mace could only say wtf...
But anyway, I suppose I trolled a little bit on this question, since I don't think we may need to change HI line as well. Just nerf the higher levels' damage a little bit down and buff their hp up would be great.

For rat, it must be a design flaw, since it has a non-neutral alignment while the time of day does not affect its damage. 3-3 suggested.

Crossbow thing...hmm :hmm: I checked that topic. Seems that other pople were thinking the same thing as I did. I think that orcs are able to build crudely made crossbow as the ones lv2s use. But their ability stops there, and they were never able to build repeating crossbow by themselves. So I suppose maybe having a 12-2 instead of 8-3 will be more reasonable? On lv3, they steal slurbows, get 12-3, very neat isn't it?

Fire Dragon rarely appears, so buff them up won't bother much of the balance I guess(the only dragon you need to defeat is on TRoW, while there was only one dragon). Add hp to 120+ and modifying other melee attacks suggested.

And, who can explain that lancers 3-times charge stuff? :augh:
Hulavuta wrote:...Okay, to me it seems like now you are just complaining for the sake of complaining. Most of your issues are just so random and insignificant, I think you're just nitpicking at this point.

5 seems like the only one that is even a credible issue, and something very similar has been brought up before: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37069
Bro, it is not simply complainment. You are always so hasty to make conclusions. Complains on rational points would be possible to raise the game up.

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by TheScribe » October 26th, 2012, 3:39 pm

Again, I'd like to mention balance. If the change is very minor, it's probably not worth it. If either way would work, it's not worth the change, IMO. (red mage's alignment, for example)
They might not be able to "stand" on it, but they can "swim" in it.
First off, they'd sink due to the weight of their armour. Secondly, their armour doesn't cover all their body. They'd burn.
I think that orcs are able to build crudely made crossbow as the ones lv2s use. But their ability stops there, and they were never able to build repeating crossbow by themselves.
Why do so many people think orcs are idiots that can't make good weapons? They could easily build repeating crossbows, IIRC.

As for the level two troll and the Shock Trooper, it's in the weapon. The Shock Trooper switches to a flail. A flail generates it's own torque in addition to the bearer's strength, while the club relies solely on the strength of the bearer. Given the same weapon, the troll might be stronger. But they don't have the same weapon, and it shows.

As for the Troll Warrior and the Iron Mauler, I'm still thinking about it, since the IM seems to switch back to a mace. I'll post once I've thought of a reason other than balance.
And, who can explain that lancers 3-times charge stuff?
Given that each fight lasts one-sixth of a day, I think the lancer has enough time to get far away enough to charge again...
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 27th, 2012, 6:53 pm

Given that each fight lasts one-sixth of a day, I think the lancer has enough time to get far away enough to charge again
Great. Then a spearman could only thrust 18 times in a whole day, a HI could only smash 12 times. Something like that, you know. :lol2:
Lancers reply on their really light armor, which enables far greater charging speed, instead of using that speed strehgth to provide repeating charges. I don't understand why did the creator get this idea. :hmm:
Assuming a heavy Knight moves 30km/h, a lancer could move at 45km/h. Under that speed, with that kinetic energy and that sharpened lance(thrust at an area no more than 1cm^2 at 95km/h), Heavy Knights' armor is nothing. Technically lancers have greater charging power than a Grand Knight each time, since they move faster; but that doesn't necessarily indicate they can move back and forth only to provide weaker charges.
Anyway, 18-2 is the rational one, though people may don't like it. Just suggesting.
First off, they'd sink due to the weight of their armour. Secondly, their armour doesn't cover all their body. They'd burn

Drakes are lava-born creatures. Fire glazes inside their burning heart. They might sink, but they won't burn.
Seems that many people insists that they would sink. I could only concur that point reluctantly :(
Why do so many people think orcs are idiots that can't make good weapons? They could easily build repeating crossbows, IIRC.
Not "many people"s fault, dear friend. It is written in units description :lol2: They are really dumbasses

For crossbow
Spoiler:
For slurbow
Spoiler:

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Dixie » October 27th, 2012, 7:25 pm

AxalaraFlame wrote:
First off, they'd sink due to the weight of their armour. Secondly, their armour doesn't cover all their body. They'd burn

Drakes are lava-born creatures. Fire glazes inside their burning heart. They might sink, but they won't burn.
Seems that many people insists that they would sink. I could only concur that point reluctantly :(
Of course, it should follow the same logic as with us, the humans, who are creatures of water (our bodies are around ~60% water). Just like we float on water and cannot drown, there is not reason drakes couldn't walk on lava and be fire immune, even if submerged in boiling lava... [/sarcasm]

Seriously, I feel it is just a big nitpicking campaign. Logic never ever changed a stat - it was always balance, with great evidence that such a change is required. If it really makes you unhappy, once again you are welcome to implement anything you want in your very on "realistic era". Who knows, maybe it'll pick up.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by TheScribe » October 27th, 2012, 8:06 pm

Of course, it should follow the same logic as with us, the humans, who are creatures of water (our bodies are around ~60% water). Just like we float on water and cannot drown, there is not reason drakes couldn't walk on lava and be fire immune, even if submerged in boiling lava... [/sarcasm]
You, sir, have made my day with this part of your post. Thank you.



Regarding the crossbows:

I understand they can't make the Slurbows, but if you're following the descriptions they can make crude repeating crossbows. So, following the descriptions, nothing needs to be changed.

Anyway, 18-2 is the rational one
Even if that is the rational explanation (which I don't think it is), it'll most likely never happen. It changes the entire concept behind the unit.
Logic never ever changed a stat - it was always balance
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Crow_T » October 27th, 2012, 8:15 pm

Anyhow, it's really easy to customize movetypes and units, and even to create your own movetypes. Me and another wesnoth fan are making magefoot, leatherfoot, and lightplatefoot to add more variety, as well as modifying other types. Other ones later on could include different outlaw types, elf types, etc. Feel free to fine tune the game to your liking, it's pretty simple, yet very complex at the same time ;)

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by TheScribe » October 27th, 2012, 8:23 pm

One other thing about the lancers that I just thought of. UAPEB.
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 27th, 2012, 8:47 pm

Yep, I am foucusing on it recently. I am learning how to make eras from that era making instruction thread. But realism varies in different people's opinions, so I need to collect ideas here before releasing some "more realistic era". It is a new setting's discussion here, aiming to find out the concensus of the balance between gameplay and "realism".
Until this far it is rather useful. Clasher problem, Drake arcane problem (I believe the balance for ghosts is a more crucial one, heny-way), horse descriptions, rats, cuttlefish (no arguements on them) are solved. However, something else mentioned above are not explained properly. They are:
1. Fencer's 10% cold resistances explanations. We REALLY only need explanations. For balance issues, against augurs and adepts, it serves its usage properly. But it requires reasons to exist.
2. Ghosts' 10% fire resistances. Need to be explained as well.
3. Orc assasins' marksmanship (In actuality, for balance issues, if it is 4 strikes and archers/wolves are cheaper in orc race, it does not really matter)
4. Assasins' hill/mountain mobility improvements

I improved the lich a little bit by +10% blade, which is just halvend ske-physical-resistances. And its arcane resistance is raised 10% up. Besides, more minor issues without disturbing the gaming balance are improved, including dragon, ancient lich, orc ruler line, and many disarranged lv3s. Some rather strong units have rather low experiences, which is contradictary to gaming balance philosiphy, are still under questioning.

Besides, some problems seem to be dependently and totally standing on balance considerations, with no much space to yield for realism. These are:
1. HI vs Trolls. Troll whelps are cheap, their damage is low(lower than gobos). Just basically due to that reason, players would be willing to expect HI advancements to have something tom prove they are worthy. Obviously they cannot have greater HP than trolls, or it would be absolutely insane :lol2: ; thus great physical damage is compensated.
I have no idea how to improve the theories here. What I could say is, hmm, balance? :roll:
2. Crossbow issue. I guess players will never like 2 strike archers in lv2...though, comparing to repeating crossbows crudely made crossbows still take rather long time to reload.
3. Lancers issue. Guess players won't like 2 heavy strike lv2 horse as well...

Anyway, these issues can be considered solved, since we cannot really change it.

@crow_T
Yep, customizing foottype is rather easy thing to do. I know how to change them , so thank you anyway. :) But how to make them work in certain UMEs is still something for me to work on.
UAPEB
sorry what?
Last edited by AxalaraFlame on October 27th, 2012, 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by Captain_Wrathbow » October 27th, 2012, 8:53 pm

UAPEB

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by AxalaraFlame » October 27th, 2012, 8:55 pm

Captain_Wrathbow wrote:UAPEB
Hmm... :hmm: how's that gonna do with lancers?

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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by TheScribe » October 27th, 2012, 10:04 pm

AxalaraFlame wrote:
Captain_Wrathbow wrote:UAPEB
Hmm... :hmm: how's that gonna do with lancers?
If you look at it like there are multiple lancers, they can charge more than once. (one charges, then the next charges, and the last one after that)
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Re: Facts of Funny and Ridiculous settings series.

Post by PhilipN » October 27th, 2012, 10:41 pm

To anyone who thinks this is a "nitpicking" and "complaining" thread: Please read the title of the thread. This thread is for ENTERTAINMENT, and should be participated in for enjoyment (all this talk of "realistic" fire-creatures clearly demonstrates this :) )

Now that I've said that, I think the unit descriptions and the way the game works help to explain much of this:

First, Dwarves don't get slowed down much by forested terrain because unlike goblins (which are short and weak), dwarves are short and stocky. They just plow through the underbrush, although a short, stocky creature still won't have much defense.

Second, Drakes are not pure fire. They would be susceptible to the extreme heat of lava (which seems to be hot even to them). The fact that they are not 100% immune to heat is proven by the fact that the mage's fire attack can damage them (although they are not as susceptible to fire as other creatures, as evidenced by the fact that the fire attack doesn't do as much damage to them). The Fire Dragon is the only unit of which I'm aware that has a 100% resistance to fire. If the Fire Dragon is going to have a 100% fire resistance, then it would perhaps be more "realistic" (to the world of Wesnoth, that is) to let them walk on lava (although they can fly anyway, IIRC).

And horses do make nice, large targets for archers.

And WHY should the Orcish Archer shoot more slowly after it levels up than before?

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