UAPEB: the reasoning?

[tuggyne]

So, UAPEB: I don't quite get it, in campaigns at least. And a search for old threads only turns up a few rationales. Anyone care to work through this for me?

A few examples:

• MP units: Doesn't matter; their names and vaguely implied individuality are largely irrelevant, and I have no problem suspending disbelief enough to consider them battalions or squads or divisions or....
• Konrad, HttT: It's at least reasonable that he'd have a few personal bodyguards, who probably wouldn't talk much, and who would always stay very close by.
• Dacyn, EI: Very strongly appears to be an individual mage who studied magic with another individual who later became a necromancer. Does not appear to have a bodyguard or be a small group of similarly-trained mages.
• variously-named apprentices in AOI: They're usually addressed collectively, but individuals sometimes speak, or are separated; this could be handwaved as spokesmen, I guess
• Kai Krellis, DW: Starts out as a level 0 (!) unit, without much personal respect from his soldiers or even civilians. Bodyguards are not out of the question, but seem a little odd.
• Landar, LoW: Advisor, friend, combatant, with rather strong opinions that don't always match Kalenz's. Not sure why he'd have bodyguards, and it seems ... highly improbable ... that he'd actually be a group.

So I guess what I'm asking is, what problems does this solve, and where is it applicable?

[Dunno]

I'll just be frank, from my point of view. I don't care. You get the same problem in most of strategic games. Take the Age of Empires, for example. One horseman can survive a point blank shot from a cannon, archers shoot dozens of arrows to kill one soldier etc. So as long as gameplay is good, the realism can be a little reduced or completely omitted.

[Kanzil]

Well, it solves the realistic problem that the entire field army of Wesnoth most likely does not consist of twenty men. Meanwhile, despite the fact Kai Krellis is young he is nevertheless a king, whilst Landar is a powerful elvish warlord with a large following and many enemies: bodyguards are practically a necessity. Finally, Dacyn most likely has at the very least a group of soldiers under his command-after all he is the councillor to the king, and arch-mage at the court.

[Shinobody]

I always thought UAPEB makes no sense (with levelling up, healing, single enchanted sword being enough to boost attack of whole unit, names, genders and character traits - whole battalions are dexterous or quick? What?) and game just runs on the same rules most RPGs do (which is not weird, since it's mix between tactical RPG and turn-based strategy). Wesnoth is not supposed to be realistic. If it was, there would be some technical progress through these thousands of years, especially since dwarves actually know how to make gunpowder and cannons, and humans trade with them regularly. But it isn't.

[Kanzil]

Well, it suits some scenarios, but not others-it adds a sense of scale in vast,epic battles, but detracts from the atmosphere in others. I do believe whole battalions can have traits-it is a description of their nature-for example, a battalion with quick may be composed of particularly quick men,or their leader may drive them at a faster pace, alternatively they may be fresher, or more fit. For example, Rommel's ghost division had tanks that were just as quick as any other german tank, he just pushed them harder and for longer. Anyway,the unit may be regarded, I assume, as the leader of that battalion, or alternatively, as the avatar of the division on the screen.

[Telchin]

Welll, the main reason for UAPEB is another acronym: HAPMA. If entire village is a single hex, where only one unit can be positioned, then it sort of makes sense for each unit to be a large group. (The real reson is to keep the game simple and having multiple units in a single hex would be more trouble than gain.) The problem is that not all maps have same scale. Underground scenarios assume that one hex wide road is a narrow cave, not two miles wide (this brings a question what exactly are cave villages). In Easter Invasion there is a scenario where you return to Weldyna and it's a cluster of villages in the middle of the map. In the next scenario the whole map respresents Weldyn, with each village hex meant to be a single house. The UAPEB also breaks in case of monsters - even if we assume that Haldrik is "Haldrik and his 100 invisible bodyguards", assuming that a Fire Dragon is actually an entire flight of dragons seems a bit ridiculous to me. Also, it seems that various campaigns have different assumptions about presumed size of your army - Under the Burning Suns is more RPG-like, so each unit can be assumed to be a single person (after all, their population was decimated by a meteor shower and then it only got worse). Other campaigns may presume that UAPEB is in effect.

[lipk]

So I guess what I'm asking is, what problems does this solve, and where is it applicable?

It solves a communication problem. You don't have to preach about "abstraction" to Clever Guys who just can't bear the mental dissonance caused by a thirty-men Royal Army and complain about irrealism. I don't think that there's any rationale behind it nor that there should be.

[AxalaraFlame]

I don't quite agree that cardinal units would need bodyguards, or they must be alike, since the king recruits, and stories are different on style. But I have to concur that rationale is necessary, and sometimes should be considered and accepted as the first thing to do(or to improve) in wesnoth. There are simply too many irrationales in it to make something common stand firm.

[JaMiT]

Anyone care to work through this for me?

Not me, because the acronym exists to tell people to not bother working through such details. If you are happy thinking about units as individuals, think about them as individuals. If you need to think of them as battalions to keep your head from exploding, think of them as battalions. Neither viewpoint is wrong.
[Insert lipk's bit about "Clever Guys" here.]

WINR. Simplicity of design trumps attempts at realism.

Well, it suits some scenarios, but not others-

Do not overlook the "P" in the acronym. That allows the acronym to suit all scenarios.

[alluton]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80 ... le_duality This and heisenberg's theory allow single unit and entire battalions at the same time. Until they are observed by someone(refers to the screnario or campaing maker's information given to the player.)
So it can be true at the sime. They don't have rule out eachother.(Tought it is extremely unlikely to happen, but meaby it is common in wesnoth?)

[Gambit]

If you're wondering how he eats and breathes, and other science facts then repeat to yourself "It's just a show. I should really just relax."
^What we should have said instead of inventing HAPMA and UAPEB.

[tuggyne]

Anyone care to work through this for me?

Not me, because the acronym exists to tell people to not bother working through such details. If you are happy thinking about units as individuals, think about them as individuals. If you need to think of them as battalions to keep your head from exploding, think of them as battalions. Neither viewpoint is wrong.
[Insert lipk's bit about "Clever Guys" here.]

OK, fair enough. I definitely find the "Possibly" part important, as otherwise it would be far more baffling.

Thanks for all the replies, guys.

[Telchin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80 ... le_duality This and heisenberg's theory allow single unit and entire battalions at the same time.

This metaphor is so awesome that I'm ashamed that I didn't make up it myself. Thumbs up!