Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

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Flameslash
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by Flameslash »

I really liked Liberty, especially the final level. I would say Under The Burning Suns, but I've never managed to get all the way through.

I don't like Northern Rebirth, because it's just too long and the first level is far too difficult.

HomerJ
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by HomerJ »

Flameslash wrote: I don't like Northern Rebirth, because it's just too long and the first level is far too difficult.
Too long? You must refer to the length of the single scenarios, because the number of scenarios is quite low.

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beetlenaut
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by beetlenaut »

Just the first level? The second scenario in NR is one of the hardest in the game! I lost count of how many tries it took for me to figure it out (on nightmare). However, it is an expert campaign. It's supposed to be hard. There are plenty of reasons not to like it, but being difficult shouldn't be one of them.
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Blarumyrran
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by Blarumyrran »

beetlenaut wrote:Just the first level? The second scenario in NR is one of the hardest in the game! I lost count of how many tries it took for me to figure it out (on nightmare). However, it is an expert campaign. It's supposed to be hard. There are plenty of reasons not to like it, but being difficult shouldn't be one of them.
I don't think Northern Rebirth is hard at all; it's been a while since I played it but iirc you started with some 1000-10000 gold (!) each level after the first few, on the hardest difficulty. The problem is that the only "skill" it really measures is how well you can put up with its tediousness because there is a constant temptation to play it in a fast & unthinking suicidewave-after-suicidewave way to escape the horribleness of the current level as quickly as possible, and if you do that then it becomes possible that you lose.

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Flameslash
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by Flameslash »

beetlenaut wrote:Just the first level? The second scenario in NR is one of the hardest in the game! I lost count of how many tries it took for me to figure it out (on nightmare). However, it is an expert campaign. It's supposed to be hard. There are plenty of reasons not to like it, but being difficult shouldn't be one of them.
I can deal with Under the Burning Suns fine on the medium difficulty, and it's an expert campaign. I think it's because the first level of Northern Rebirth is hard because your units are terrible, not because of real difficulty. That might just be me, though.

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beetlenaut
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by beetlenaut »

Blarumyrran wrote:iirc you started with some 1000-10000 gold (!) each level after the first few
Actually, you lose the enormous gold reserves after just one scenario. The plot of the whole second half of the campaign is centered around recovering it, and you start with a normal amount each time. However, the enemy sides do start with thousands, (3600 on Eastern Flank for example) which is what makes it tedious. I still think some of the scenarios are actually tough, and I've completed every other mainline campaign at its hardest level.
Flameslash wrote:the first level of Northern Rebirth is hard because your units are terrible, not because of real difficulty.
Are you saying it's only hard because you don't have an army of dwarf lords? Well, sure. Having weak units is what makes every beginning scenario potentially difficult.
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Flameslash
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by Flameslash »

beetlenaut wrote:
Flameslash wrote:the first level of Northern Rebirth is hard because your units are terrible, not because of real difficulty.
Are you saying it's only hard because you don't have an army of dwarf lords? Well, sure. Having weak units is what makes every beginning scenario potentially difficult.
Not because I don't have an army of Dwarf Lords, but because I can only recruit level 0s to send against enemies who can kill several of my people a turn and take loads of attacks from my guys to kill. In shooter games it's the kind of difficulty you get from bullet sponge enemies and weak guns, not the kind you get from smart, creative enemies.

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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by Caphriel »

It's been a long time since I played NR, but if I recall the first scenario correctly, there are several enemy sides fighting each other. What you kind of want to do is let them wear each other down, and poach kills of wounded units whenever possible.

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Flameslash
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by Flameslash »

Caphriel wrote:It's been a long time since I played NR, but if I recall the first scenario correctly, there are several enemy sides fighting each other. What you kind of want to do is let them wear each other down, and poach kills of wounded units whenever possible.
They seem to like fighting right outside my castle, so that isn't an option when I play.

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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by maredi316 »

Flameslash wrote:
Caphriel wrote:It's been a long time since I played NR, but if I recall the first scenario correctly, there are several enemy sides fighting each other. What you kind of want to do is let them wear each other down, and poach kills of wounded units whenever possible.
They seem to like fighting right outside my castle, so that isn't an option when I play.
This is not that hard...keep your units away from the orcs for the first 10-12 turns, rush and surround the warlord(blue) with whatever unit available, use range and in about 7-10 turns the warlord should be dead. Also, about a squad of 4-5 units should be going on hunts for villages-see a wolf-gun em down, because it would be like 4vs1.

Favorite campaigns:HttT-come on, it was the best, so many varieties of units to call, the cliffs of Thoria was fixed by the way on the iphone, just was simply great with what you can do with units. Only flaw is that the champion level(I think challenging) is not that challenging-there should be a nightmare level, because that first, most mainline campaign should be appealing to those new and experienced to the game.
LoW-amazing elven campaign. shows the true strength of elves in any situation. Due to this campaign I still believe elves are most superior with decent sword melee and great ranged combat.
EI-Really, really screwed up but I am playing it right now on the hardest level, and the fact that this is a sheer undead apocalypse really appeals to me.
NR-Yes it's hell and I only finished once on peasant level by mass redoing like 2 years ago. But when my friends and I occasionally reflect back to wesnoth(I only play much in the summer), its always Infested Caves we refer to.

Also the AI got faster, and I personally feel NR best fits with the engine of wesnoth-wesnoth is WW1-its trench warfare, only people don't dig trenches. What I am trying to say is that the way to win in the game is to generate a huge-ass line of units, and basically those who hit the middle of that line, or trench, is usually machinegunned to death-which leaves some options of skirmishing with cavalry or skirmishers, or to take the ends of the "trench" and shorten it, or to just simply use sheer force to break through the trench with units fighting on top of their dead comrades and enemies. The main way though is to slowly take the good terrain and move that line of trenches towards the enemy. This is what both Germans and the British did in WW1, and this is what should be done in wesnoth.

In order to execute this, one needs a lot of cannon fodder and kamikaze assaults, which can only be done in NR due to a lot of gold, lot of enemies, lot of XP.
that was long. But this was because people complain about NR so much-it's the only part of wesnoth that really uses its traits to the best of its extent. The [censored](this means slow, not stupid, my friends) AI is something that is not attracitve, though

Improvable campaigns:DM-I never got to level most of those units to 3.
ATTB-Too short, and kinda pointless-but great credits to the artists.

Favorite scenarios:Siege of Elensefar and the other semi-large scale battles in HttT-we lost guys, they lost more. so we won. That's how war should be, and personally how every wesnoth scenario should be. some can't just stand a death of a level 3 though, and for them it may suck.

Possibly improvable scenario:Showdown of NR, Battle for Wesnoth of HttT. These are well, may be the ultimate form of trench warfare I mentioned above, but it's all flatland and there is absolutely no strategy to taking terrain, and way too cav friendly. It looks like the mapmakers were too lazy to do anything to the map. Also, what kind of idiot places a strategic positions like a huge castle in the middle of nothing but fields-go farm that land, and move the fu**ing castle in a more worthwhile place like near a forest or a mountain.
Endless NIght of DiD(btw best storyline of badass dark characters, and ends that atmosphere well): just way to repetitive, and no much of a point as one gets less gold over time

anonamouse
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by anonamouse »

I don't dislike any of the mainline campaigns I have played so far.
I Like Descent into Darkness,It is the only mainline campaign that the faction you play as is undead.

Creativity
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by Creativity »

anonamouse wrote:I don't dislike any of the mainline campaigns I have played so far.
I Like Descent into Darkness,It is the only mainline campaign that the faction you play as is undead.
That was the one redeeming quality of DiD, otherwise I felt that the campaign sucked-too short(and various other things).

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TheScribe
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by TheScribe »

I'm working through Dead Water right now, and it's the worst so far. As for reasons:
1). You're Mermen. Mermen have crummy everything. The best level 1 merman unit is the brawler, which you can't recruit...
2). The creator of the campaign assumes that you level up your units REALLY fast. I don't. (Read the .cfg, you'll see what I mean)
3). Your leader stinks.

From what I've tried, I liked HttT best. It was long enough to last a little while, but not so long as to be annoying. The dialouge was good, and the scenarios weren't too hard, yet interesting and challenging at the same time.

Worst scenario that I've played: Battle for Wesnoth (HttT). I can sum it up in one word: anti-climatic.

The best scenario I've played was Cliffs of Thoria (HttT). Challenging and interesting. It could have been a little more clear about the Drakes spawning on the villages, but still good.
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by Rebel_Angel »

I have to agree about Dead Water. To be honest I've never played it past scenario 3, as I just don't enjoy it (though of course it might get better later...)

HttT and UtBS are my favourites and pretty evenly-matched, I would say. UtBS is, for me, better in most ways, but is let down by the Desert Elf artwork (and to a lesser extent, the entire faction concept). I think I read somewhere that the Quenoth are being revamped currently (please?), in which case UtBS will probably become the clear winner in my book.

I don't really have a favourite scenario, but my least favourite has to be that one from the South Guard, where you get swarmed by an infinite horde of elves who you supposedly don't have to kill. I've never beaten it, refuse to cheat after playing the entire campaign legitimately, and I've now lost all interest in beating it.
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Re: Best and Worst MAINLINE campaigns and scenarios

Post by TheScribe »

Rebel_Angel wrote:I don't really have a favourite scenario, but my least favourite has to be that one from the South Guard, where you get swarmed by an infinite horde of elves who you supposedly don't have to kill. I've never beaten it, refuse to cheat after playing the entire campaign legitimately, and I've now lost all interest in beating it.
The one where you have to move your elvish cannot die unit to the great tree? Cause that's the last level... (I'd be happy to give you some hints, if you want)
Sorta on a break from the forums ATM, have been for a while. If I was doing something for/with you and I haven't recently, that's why, I will be back soon hopefully.

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