Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

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onomastikon
Posts: 28
Joined: November 28th, 2011, 8:35 am

Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

Post by onomastikon »

I'm just getting my feet wet in this game and recently found out how to play "sandbox" (multiplayer mode vs. 1 AI on random map), and played 3 games as Undead. Fun! I noticed, however, that after a few initial recruitments of bats for scouting purposes, I was basically only getting ghosts. I'm not sure why I should really be getting anything else -- ghosts are so incredibly fast, and with their resistances are halfway robust, but the best thing about them is they have melee and ranged attacks, unlike the ghoul, skeleton, zombie (forget correct name), bat, or apprentice -- granted, the skeleton archer has a fist, but have you ever damaged anything with that? I haven't. I once found myself facing a couple of Woses, so I got a ghoul for poison purposes, but it didn't seem "worth it" to me. Basically, I don't see anything being nearly as versatile or strong for the price of a ghost.
I am sure the majority of player here would disagree, and I am keen to hear why.
What am I missing about the other units?

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Dixie
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Re: Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

Post by Dixie »

1) Ghosts are kinda costy;
2) Ghosts have good resistances, but have very low HPs to balance it out;
3) Ghosts have drain and both ranges, but very low damage output;

Other units are needed to balance:
1) Dark adepts have a great damage output with great accuracy for a lower price;
2) Skeletons have good resistances, even if not as good as ghosts', but they have much more HPs and are much cheaper;

There are always cases where you will want another unit. For exemple, against cavalry/horsemen, skeely archers are a good pick because of their pierce ranged attack. Ghouls are sometime useful as a defensive units: they have OK resistances and HPs, but their poison melee is a big discouragement to human player. etc.

If you have doubts, grab a few undead replays and see how top players do it. Maybe you can manage it with only ghosts because AIs are dumb, but it wouldn't last long against a human who knew what they were doing. Almost every faction has a good counter to them...
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shadowblack
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Re: Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

Post by shadowblack »

Ghosts are expensive and have low HP. At day a mage kills a ghost with 2 hits. Drake Burners are also very good against ghosts. And ulfs (especially strong ones) have a high chance to destroy a full-health ghost at day (at other times they might need some support, such as from a Poacher). Dark Adepts with their arcana attacks are excellent ghost killers, especially at night. Last, but not least, Orcish Archers are pretty good against ghosts.

How useful ghosts will be depends entirely on what the enemy has recruited. Don't make conclusions based on only a few games.
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Ceres
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Re: Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

Post by Ceres »

As for the other units:
  • Dark Adepts may have no melee attack, but 10-2 / 7-2 magical is deadly to elusive units and units which are weak to cold or arcane. At nighttime they can kill off pretty much anything. Just make sure you shield them from heavy melee hitters (especially berserkers).
  • Ghouls have high resistances, including arcane and fire, and they poison, making them good tanks.
  • Skeletons are your melee attacker of choice, with useful resistances against blade and pierce. They dish out 9-3 at night, which is good for a level-1-unit.
  • Skeleton archers are good against anything mounted/drakes.
Also, there's this wiki page about how to play undead.
Last edited by Ceres on March 23rd, 2012, 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dunno
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Re: Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

Post by Dunno »

Ghosts aren't really a good front-line meat, and you need that in Wesnoth to commence a successful assault (by meat I mean high damage/good hp like ghoul, adept or axe skeleton). They do create a very good distraction, however. Especially against Knalgans.
One more thing you have to grant them is that a lvl 2 ghost is absolutely badass and doesn't require much xp. So if you use them right, they are a very powerful unit, thus the price. Just don't get overexcited.
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Boldek
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Re: Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

Post by Boldek »

Dunno wrote:Ghosts aren't really a good front-line meat, and you need that in Wesnoth to commence a successful assault (by meat I mean high damage/good hp like ghoul, adept or axe skeleton). They do create a very good distraction, however. Especially against Knalgans.
One more thing you have to grant them is that a lvl 2 ghost is absolutely badass and doesn't require much xp. So if you use them right, they are a very powerful unit, thus the price. Just don't get overexcited.
Exactly. Ghosts really don't stand up to much heavy fighting, but they can really cause a lot of damage once they level up. Their only drawback is their cost compared with the hp against fire and arcane. even lvl 3 spectre can be mauled pretty bad by lvl 1 mage, so even with their usefulness, they shouldn't be your main staple for your army.
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onomastikon
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Joined: November 28th, 2011, 8:35 am

Re: Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

Post by onomastikon »

OK thanks for the replies. I'm not a pro for sure. I also don't have any ambitions of becoming one and playing MP.
One thing I do notice in the replies is that almost nobody mentions mobility. I love the ghosts because they are fast and pay 1 movement point for just about any terrain.
One question: Does anybody upgrade to shadows? I don't find them nearly as fantastic as wraiths....

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taptap
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Re: Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

Post by taptap »

Yes, mobility is always good and both shadows (skirmish, backstab + nightstalk and the highest damage potential of all L2 units) and wraiths are great units but you are playing the AI even = without any handicap (apart from recruiting only ghosts). I would say any human player - whatever his particular skill - will obliterate an all-ghost recruit, with the AI being particularly bad at protecting mages, adepts, orc archers = damage dealers against ghosts or simply not recruiting enough of them, however, you get away with this.

Imho, shadows are much more amazing then wraiths, who achieve their feats vs. AI when faced with bad (or predetermined) recruits as the endless hordes of trolls and wose they can cut through in campaigns.
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The_Other
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Re: Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

Post by The_Other »

Wraiths are probably useful in more situation, but shadows are so much cooler!
It's creepy, it lurks in dark corners, you can't see it till you trip over it, and it's got big claws.....it's the Bogeyman!

Once you get two or three of them, they're excellent for picking off healers and ranged specialists, and even careless enemy leaders.
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Huumy
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Re: Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

Post by Huumy »

I guess it depends who you are playing. If you are playing vs AI 1v1 spamming ghost sounds like good idea if you would try the same vs any decent human player then you face more recruit units that are good vs ghosts.

Try going only ghosts when you're opponent is going mainly thiefs, mages, orc archers, drake burners or adepts. Not so good :).

Because the behaviour differences between AI and human players, vs AI you can spam one unit but vs human players you need to recruit; mix of cheaper and expensive units (to not get overrunned by sheer numbers), units that are good vs what your opponent is doing, and units that are good on that specific map.

This of course depends on the "skill" of the human player.

It's too long to explain all the things you are missing about other units, if you really want to know and don't mind losing ask any of the top 10 players on this list to play a game with you with default settings on a 1v1 map http://wesnoth.gamingladder.info/ladder.php

I hope you enjoy the game and remember to have fun! :)
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onomastikon
Posts: 28
Joined: November 28th, 2011, 8:35 am

Re: Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

Post by onomastikon »

Thank you for the friendly replies!
(And I am having fun!!)

Jean_mi
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Joined: October 9th, 2009, 6:06 pm

Re: Ghosts - I only seem to get ghosts

Post by Jean_mi »

Ghosts are expensive, don't give much damage and are destroyed by any fire or arcane attack. For this reason, ghosts are only really good against knalgans because they don't have such attack types.

It also depends on the situations. For example, if your loyalist opponent doesn't recruit much mages (which he should because they're great against undead), then ghosts are good units if you manage to avoid mages.

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