The initial campaign...

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Jabie
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The initial campaign...

Post by Jabie »

...ignoring the Tutorial, which campaign(s) are meant to be the initial campaigns. AoI and AToTB seem relatively, whereas a good argument can also be made for The South guard and Heir to the Throne.

It's important to know which campaigns are designed as starting campaigns as these are the campaigns where hints and tips ought to be stressed.

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CeltiK
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by CeltiK »

I'd say An Orcish Incursion and The South Guard. By completing both you'll learn how to play elves, how to use terrain and deal with different resistances (undead). You'll learn how to fight orcs, undead and outlaws. Besides, both have a relatively interesting storyline and are not too long (8-9 scenarios).

I think everyone should start with these 2 campaigns before playing Heir to the Throne.

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Raket
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by Raket »

Heir to The Throne is the flagship and main campaign of Wesnoth,
it makes sense to start with this.

Not only that, the player would be more comfortable with the characters (Konrad and Delfador) and the elves because he played with them in the tutorial. You will gradually meet new units and situations which you will learn from, for example the Isle of the Damned scenario, which teaches you that skeleton bones are weak to impact.

So, in my opinion, ideally a beginner should go through the novice campaigns in this order:
0. Tutorial
1. Heir to The Throne
2. The South Guard
3. A Tale of Two Brothers
4. An Orcish Incursion

Because HttT is so long, one could take a break from it and play and complete a shorter campaign.
AToTB is a good example of this.

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ivanovic
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by ivanovic »

Jabie wrote:...ignoring the Tutorial, which campaign(s) are meant to be the initial campaigns. AoI and AToTB seem relatively, whereas a good argument can also be made for The South guard and Heir to the Throne.
The tutorial ends with explicitly stating which campaigns (and why!) are best suited for beginners!

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SkyOne
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by SkyOne »

Jabie wrote:It's important to know which campaigns are designed as starting campaigns as these are the campaigns where hints and tips ought to be stressed.
As far as I know, the extra instructions of the game have been installed only on the EASY difficulty of TSG and AOI.

HttT used to be recommended to play at the end of tutorial (on BfW 1.4?), but I think the line has been changed. So I personally recommend to play the EASY difficulty of The South Guard, first. It seems the instructions on TSG has been polished since BfW 1.4.

(however, I still believe that playing the tutorial, before playing any, is the best selection on this game. It is only two easy scenarios.)
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Dixie
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by Dixie »

Sriously, play the tutorial, it's gonna take like 20 minutes top, and it's worth every second.
Raket wrote:Heir to The Throne is the flagship and main campaign of Wesnoth,
it makes sense to start with this.
Nope, it doesn't. HttT introduces lots of units and forks, has very tricky scenario, and especially, it is LONG. Long campaigns are an added difficulty onto themselves. Of course it's not the hardest, but I by no means would recommend it for a total bginner (especially one that skipped the tutorial!)

Also, was A Tale of Two Brothers supposed to be the ideal beginner campaign, with loyalists vs orcs and undeads and about 4 scenarios?
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Raket
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by Raket »

Dixie wrote:HttT introduces lots of units and forks, has very tricky scenario

But the campaign introduces them in a slow way over time, you start with Konrad and Delfador and elves which you played in the tutorial with, so it's then more easier to see 1 or 2 new units over time, compared to playing a campaign with completely new characters and completely new units which you all need to check the description of (assuming the player would of played the tutorial only before this).

The first few scenarios in HttT are very easy and the game basically guides you with babysteps untill you get accustomed and get a couple L2 units.
Dixie wrote:and especially, it is LONG. Long campaigns are an added difficulty onto themselves. Of course it's not the hardest, but I by no means would recommend it for a total bginner
Long or short is irrelevant, you can always save at a scenario and come back at it later. It's good if you take a break from it and complete a shorter scenario before going back to HttT again.
But I'd still recommend STARTING with HttT (not neccesarily finishing it!) because it has Konrad and Delfador, the characters you played in the tutorial.

HttT starts out with units you already know, and then gradually introduces new units over the course of the campaign, that's why I think it's the first and initial campaign.
I think that it's a nice transition from the tutorial.

But in the end it's up to the player. You could start out with AToTB but you would have to get used to these Loyalist units (which can take some time) because he only played Elves in the tutorial.

shadowblack
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by shadowblack »

I'd recommend paying the campaigns in the following order:
1) Tutorial (obviously enough)
2) An Orcish Incursion - Elves versus Orcs, just like in the tutorial, and on the lowest difficulty provides useful hints and tips. Also introduces a few new units over time
3) The South Gaurd - on the lowest difficulty provides useful hints and tips, and introduces the player to loyalists, outlaws and undead. After the first few scenarios the player gets elves - units the player should be familiar with
4) A Tale of Two Brothers - it's short and you get to fight opponents you should be familiar with from the previous three campaigns
5) Heir to the Throne - the most difficult of the Novice campaigns, it has some "blocker" scenarios that can be very hard for new players, such as "Siege of Elensefar" and "The Valley of Death". It not only introduces a number of new units, but also a number of different opponents (Orcs, Loyalists, Undead, monsters...), a number of different battlefields (forests, plains, caves, shallow water...) and some deviation from the normal rules, such as the ambushes during the Crossroads scenario and the changing terrain during the Scepter of Fire scenario
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taptap
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by taptap »

A Tale of Two Brothers can be pretty hard (the first three at least) if you don't play it on easy difficulty. Siege of Elensefar and The Valley of Death if I recall correctly turn out problematic almost always because players who start HttT "the novice campaign" do so on normal or challenging difficulty and because earlier scenarios are playable at a more leisurely pace (at least if you don't care about winning in good shape).
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CeltiK
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by CeltiK »

I agree with shadowblack and taptap. You'll learn a lot by playing HttT but only if you already know a bit about the game, just the basis you got from AOI and TSG. Otherwise, they'll likely be blocked at the Siege of Elensefar and/or Valley of Death. Just read the feedbacks from new players for those 2 scenarios.

Creativity
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by Creativity »

I played the first couple HttT scenarios a couple times(first time I didn't have enough leveled units), came back to BfW after some time, and finished DiD(on easy).
:)

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alexanderthegre
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by alexanderthegre »

Creativity wrote:I played the first couple HttT scenarios a couple times(first time I didn't have enough leveled units), came back to BfW after some time, and finished DiD(on easy).
:)
Yeah, same here. IMO DiD should probably be reclassified as a 'novice' campaign. But I've only finished around 3/4 of the mainline campaigns, so my opinion probably isn't the best. :P

Jabie
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by Jabie »

I wouldn't call Descent into Darkness a beginner quest. Last time I played DiD ( 1.8 ) I got stuck half way through. I'd completed some of the other campaigns - Legend of Wesmere? (The elven one with Kalenz and Landar), the Hammer of Thursagen and the Outlaw one, but I never managed to beat DiD. I'll give it another crack on 1.10 at some point.

I'm currently working my way through the initial quests of 1.10, and I want to make a few notes where a character can feed some tactical information to the player. This can all be configured for Easy level so as to specifically target new players. I've completed the "shorts" and I have a few ideas, but I'll wait til I've finished HttT before I publish them.

TheCripple
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by TheCripple »

I'd jump into the deep end, to accelerate the learning curve. As such, Under the Burning Suns and Northern Rebirth are both perfect to start with.

pauline
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Re: The initial campaign...

Post by pauline »

Heir to The Throne was my very first campaign as a bloody beginner … took me weeeeks to beat it.
I´ve finished 9 out of the 15 main campaigns so far. Even with today´s "experience" :? :
I still think it shouldn´t be part of the "easy" campaigns.
And certainly not since it really IS a Wesnoth-flagship.

I will now start all over again with my update from v 1.8.6 to v 1.10.1 :oops:
and follow the list of shadowblack (March 5th, 2012, 9:27 am)
that I do consider very advisable. :wink:

pauline

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