Which faction is easiest to master?

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Which faction is easiest to master?

Loyalists
25
30%
Northerners
9
11%
Rebels
40
48%
Knaglan
4
5%
Drakes
0
No votes
Undead
6
7%
 
Total votes: 84

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averyimaginativename
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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by averyimaginativename »

Personally, I found undead easiest to master when playing with average players. The units roles are more specialised than other factions...eg, you can use an Elven fighter as an archer if you have to, and an elven archer can do okay in melee. With undead, you don't have that versatility. This specialisation forces you to play a certain way and makes your options for countering more obvious.

Against good players, I don't know because I've never beaten one.
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artisticdude
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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by artisticdude »

I actually believe Loyalists are the easiest to master, simply because each unit serves a very specific purpose. Once you learn the purpose of each unit, you've got the faction mastered, IMO. Rebels are pretty multi-purpose IMO, and the Rebel style of gameplay is less straightforward than that of the loyalists, due to the Rebels being neutral etc. Basically, what Caphriel said.

And, although somewhat irrelevant to the conversation,in my experience the Northerners are the hardest faction to master (although that might just be me :P ).
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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by powershot »

artisticdude wrote:I actually believe Loyalists are the easiest to master, simply because each unit serves a very specific purpose. Once you learn the purpose of each unit, you've got the faction mastered, IMO. Rebels are pretty multi-purpose IMO, and the Rebel style of gameplay is less straightforward than that of the loyalists, due to the Rebels being neutral etc. Basically, what Caphriel said.

And, although somewhat irrelevant to the conversation,in my experience the Northerners are the hardest faction to master (although that might just be me :P ).
I agree, Northerners are terrible sometimes. :P
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Huumy
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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by Huumy »

My vote is for rebels. I don't think they are the easiest to master but for teaching 11 and 14 year play multiplayer I think they are the fastest to learn and become good with.
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Crushmaster
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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by Crushmaster »

I'd say Loyalists, but I'm undoubtedly biased, as it's the only faction I really play. Still, it is versatile, so it'd make sense (and six others agree currently).
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Sapient
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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by Sapient »

With Loyalists, recruiting the wrong specialty units or too many specialty units can be a real liability. Their strength of choice can also be viewed as a problem of having too much selection.

Northerners are far more straightforward I think. Achieving a mastery with Northerners is probably easiest of all the factions.

But I think a better question would be what faction to recommend for newcomers. And for that, I would definitely say Rebels. Learning how to best use terrain to your advantage (and when it is safe to forgo it) is really important to learn, and the elven forest defense is a great teacher. But mastering some Rebel concepts (such as optimum usage of your shamans and captains) will take time. It is not the simplest faction to "master", IMO, but the best for training up newbies.
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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by Caphriel »

Hmm. I find that players tend to get the hang of terrain much more quickly than ToD mechanics, which is why I recommended the Loyalists. I think the Rebels have similar problems with specialty units (shamans, woses (is that the correct pluralization of wose?), archers, and mages), and a tendency toward defensive/reactive play that I think is harder to get the hang of than "attack at day, retreat at night." To put it another way, I think it's more likely that a new player who has a reasonable grasp of the game mechanics but not much strategy will meet with more success playing Loyalists than playing Rebels.

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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by Atz »

I'd say Loyalists. Their unit roles are fairly intuitive, and they're totally lawful which is helpful for learning the ToD system. Rebels and Northerners are also fine.

Rebels' main units are more flexible than Loyalists', which can make them a bit more forgiving if your army composition is less than perfect. However, I know the need to use forests to keep your units from dying en masse can sometimes make things difficult for newbies. They've also got (slightly) mixed alignment.

Northies are also relatively easy to recruit for (when in doubt, get a grunt), are all chaotic except for the naga, and are pretty cheap so if you make a mistake it's not always a huge issue. However, I don't think they're the best for teaching people about using the right unit for the right situation, since Northies' solution to a lot of situations is "loads of grunts". Some players might fall into the habit of just spamming one unit all the time.

Drakes and Undead are probably the hardest for beginners to play as. They've both got unusual resistances, and Drakes have the additional complications of mixed alignment and unusual movetypes. Plus Drakes are really expensive, so a single mistake can put you at a big disadvantage.

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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by Insinuator »

Well, since we're talking about MP, I know that one of the most difficult areas for me to learn was wise use of the Time of Day. Because of that, I think Loyalists, although attractive because of their inherent unit flexibility, become more difficult to master. Often I've seen newer players woed by the power of the Mage and Horseman and overrecruit these fragile units. Then, not completely grasping ToD, they let these now expensive liabilities get slaughtered by a counter-attack.

Northerners are far more attractive choice because it is difficult to mess up the recruitment too much. This also means that tactical mistakes aren't as profound. As someone mentioned, you lose a Grunt, whoop-de-doo! But they also suffer from ToD difficulties and being slower in general makes a unwise advance even more difficult to get out of.

So I'm left with Rebels. Their units are fairly resilient and the vast majority of players are quickly able to master the Elves high defense values. Their quickness is also advantageous to correct tactical errors. But most importantly, they are Neutral. This means strategic errors can also be corrected without as much damage. Charging Loyalists at day might be suicidal for other factions, but it is merely reprehensible for a new Rebel player.

All that said though, mastery doesn't really come with ease of learning curve. It has as much to do with map consideration, opponent ability, and general unit placement than a particular faction. Just because someone has become good with a particular faction on a particular map versus a particular opponent doesn't mean they've mastered that faction. They could fare very poorly on a different map versus a different opponent, especially if they continue to employ the same strategy that proved of value in their last match.

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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by Noy »

I used to teach people with Knalgan. You can do almost all the basics with five base unit; Fighter, Guardsman, Ulf, Thunderer and Gryphon (and the Ulf and guardsman are pretty optional). Each unit has defined roles but can be used against any faction. They all have similar movetypes and are dependent on mountain/hill terrain for defence. Knowing this, it forces players to learn about terrain quickly; Put your units in a field and they die, and on mountains they live. They are also a forgiving faction with high armor and good HP. They have growth potential by adding in the outlaws when a player is ready for more diversity.

Rebels are different; mage requires you to use a different TOD and their lower HP means you can have an unlucky turn that puts your defence in the toilet. You're less likely to see that happen with the Knalgan.
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WhiteWolf
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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by WhiteWolf »

I would say rebels are the easiest, but I vote for undead :D

Rebels are easy because they have the 'Archer', and if you use it properly, you can win very simply. And you have the ability to lead, you are neutral, you have special traits and abilities (dexterous, marksman), but you have mages too! I think it's the race to learn wesnoth, but not the race to play it.

Let's analyse all of the races:

Drakes:
I used to play with them. They are unable to fight against undead and loyalists. But I think they are the best against dwarves. If you want to try something really different, try them, there are interesting occasions in them.

Northerners:
Not a good choice if you want to play simply. Their only weapon is that they are in plenty. By using this advantage, you can occupy and guard tactically important places on the map. I wouldn't suggest them for beginners.

Loyalists:
Another easy-to-learn race. It's worth learning them, but in the game, I don't think they are the best (note that I dislike playing with lawful and neutral races :wink: )

Dwarves:
I would say that they are in the middle. It isn't impossible to learn them while you are still a beginner, and they are good in the game too. Against undead they are the best but they can't cross sword with elves and loyalists.

Undead:
Very good race to experienced players and experts. You need to practice with them a lot, because their tactic is very different from the elven and human. Their main problem is that they don't have any special ability, and they don't have traits. But they have poison, and back-stab. If you synchronize the shadows, wraiths, ghouls and skeletons well, they can't be defeated. Note that they are the only race that I could defeat elves with, in multi player.

So:
If you are learning wesnoth, play with loyalists or rebels.
If you are in the middle, play with dwarves.
If you have your experience, play with undead, or northerners.
If you want something 'extreme :) ' try drakes.
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Dunno
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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by Dunno »

Don't get me wrong, but you sound like you don't see Wesnoth as balanced. And some good players might take your theses as challenges. For example, I'd gladly play as knalga agains drakes and prove you wrong. My point is: this thread and poll isn't about "the best" faction, because there isn't one. It's about the easiest faction, the most suitable for beginners, and I can't understand why you've voted for undead when you also stated that rebels or loyalists are the easiest.

Btw, I see you are new here, so I recommend reading some threads about balancing, e.g http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... &start=405
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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by WhiteWolf »

You're right, there isn't 'best race'. But every race has it's own specials that they can use against one-two race as the best. There IS balance in wesnoth, I don't doubt it, but I think you make your matter easier if you choose a race which has the most proper specials against your enemy.
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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by Velensk »

What he means by balanced is that in every match-up both sides have equally appropriate specials against each other and this is generally true.

You say that drakes are unable to fight against undead and loyalists, and when it comes to it, this is simply not true. When both players know what they're doing, those match-ups are actually fairly balanced. You give other examples of match-ups you believe to be unbalanced but the consensus among top players is that most match-ups are pretty even at high levels of play.
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Re: Which faction is easiest to master?

Post by KingOfDrakes »

Northerners
They are cheap.
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