Some thoughts...
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Cognito
Some thoughts...
Aloha! I just wanted to take the time to thank and congratulate all those who contributed to the creation of this wonderful, beautiful, [insert your favorite superlative here], but most of all, unbelievably fun game. I must say that when I first stumbled across this game on Versiontracker.com, my expectations were not terribly high; however, the depth of gameplay - as well as the effective use of available graphics and music - really impressed me. I've also been impressed by the responsiveness of the developers at this forum and the amount of improvement the game seems to make from release to release, so I finally decided to offer my comments in an attempt to make whatever small contribution I could. Hope they are of some use.
First of all, I really like the implementation of alternate "career branches" for certain units: it makes the game that much more interesting to explore. On the other hand, I wonder if more thorough and/or centralized documentation is planned? I realize that this is probably rather low on the priority list given the nature of the project, but perhaps (in the final version) it might be useful to have an in-game link to descriptions of units when a choice of upgrade branches is offered. If possible, such a linking system might also be useful in explaining conditions, offering a chart for easy comparison of units' movement/attack/defense capabilities, and so on. It seems that most of this information exists somewhere (e.g. the BfW website charts or somewhat hidden in the unit descriptions), or can be discovered through experimentation, but having such information available in a centralized location (maybe the manual or a supplement akin to Civilization's "Civilopedia") could possibly ease the learning curve somewhat. Certainly, it would be useful to know that, while a slowed unit apparently is healed of its condition by its next turn, a poisoned unit is not, or to know how a poisoned unit may be healed. And even if exact stats of a unit were not viewable until you actually possessed the unit, having access to a unit description before upgrading it, or before recalling a unit in the hopes of upgrading it, might play a big role in how you choose to advance your units.
On the topic of ideas I've ripped off from the Civ series, I think I saw a few posts from a while back regarding features I would personally love to see in BfW, but don't remember seeing a definitive resolution to the discussions. The first of these was the idea of having a unit capable of moving after attacking, or even of changing the system so that all units are capable of moving after an attack if they only hit the enemy a certain amount of times. I rather favor the latter, especially to aid in the leveling of certain units who have extremely low defense stats, but who don't seem to fit the idea of having a specialized ability to escape (like Elvish Druids or Mages, though I suppose one could, by a stretch of the imagination, come up with a reason for either one). Another idea from the Civ series is that of giving a healing bonus for conquering an enemy's village, though this idea is more in the "it might be interesting" than "it would really improve the game!" category.
On the topic of unit descriptions: while I like the idea of giving hints as to the unit's abilities in a more poetic fashion, this can sometimes be a little confusing, especially since - of necessity, I understand - the descriptions are apparently written by different people. For example, the Elvish Marksman is described as having "lesser speed" yet he is capable of 6 moves a turn, which seems to be a good number for an elvish unit. The Marksman's desc also contains the information that he can hit 60% of his attacks (which, at the risk of sounding extremely anal, can possibly be misinterpreted since it does not specify ranged attacks - I realize however, that this is implied), regardless of terrain, while the Red Mage's desc specifies that he is "good at both day and night" instead of saying that his magic attacks have a 70% chance of hitting (and are also affected by his "Lawful" status). I hate to sound so critical, since I don't intend to just criticize; however, I think these examples serve to illustrate the point that a more uniform system for describing units' special abilities might be helpful. And while I can't guarantee that I will continue to have time, I have started to compile a list of all unit descriptions from the .cfg files, and begun some grammatical editing (my language skills are stronger than my programming ones, though this isn't saying much). If there is interest in standardizing unit descriptions, I would be happy to do some work and post changes to an area that would be open to others. For reference, here are some strictly grammatical changes I would make to the description of the Elvish Shyde while sticking rather closely to the original (original words are in brackets):
"Female elves that are devoted to nature and their faerie side slowly transform into [in] Shides. Dragonfly wings sprout from their [her] backs [back] and change them into [in] beautiful [beutifull] creatures capable of gliding unencumbered through [in] the elven forests."
It's not much of a difference, but I think that these things do contribute to the overall feel of polish on the game. Some of the scenario dialogs could perhaps also benefit from this editing; again if there is agreement or interest here, feel free to let me know.
Wow, I can't believe how long this has gotten. I guess I'll end the post here with a question. What exactly do character traits like strong, resilient, quick, intelligent, and loyal do? Thanks in advance, and thanks again for putting together such a great game.
First of all, I really like the implementation of alternate "career branches" for certain units: it makes the game that much more interesting to explore. On the other hand, I wonder if more thorough and/or centralized documentation is planned? I realize that this is probably rather low on the priority list given the nature of the project, but perhaps (in the final version) it might be useful to have an in-game link to descriptions of units when a choice of upgrade branches is offered. If possible, such a linking system might also be useful in explaining conditions, offering a chart for easy comparison of units' movement/attack/defense capabilities, and so on. It seems that most of this information exists somewhere (e.g. the BfW website charts or somewhat hidden in the unit descriptions), or can be discovered through experimentation, but having such information available in a centralized location (maybe the manual or a supplement akin to Civilization's "Civilopedia") could possibly ease the learning curve somewhat. Certainly, it would be useful to know that, while a slowed unit apparently is healed of its condition by its next turn, a poisoned unit is not, or to know how a poisoned unit may be healed. And even if exact stats of a unit were not viewable until you actually possessed the unit, having access to a unit description before upgrading it, or before recalling a unit in the hopes of upgrading it, might play a big role in how you choose to advance your units.
On the topic of ideas I've ripped off from the Civ series, I think I saw a few posts from a while back regarding features I would personally love to see in BfW, but don't remember seeing a definitive resolution to the discussions. The first of these was the idea of having a unit capable of moving after attacking, or even of changing the system so that all units are capable of moving after an attack if they only hit the enemy a certain amount of times. I rather favor the latter, especially to aid in the leveling of certain units who have extremely low defense stats, but who don't seem to fit the idea of having a specialized ability to escape (like Elvish Druids or Mages, though I suppose one could, by a stretch of the imagination, come up with a reason for either one). Another idea from the Civ series is that of giving a healing bonus for conquering an enemy's village, though this idea is more in the "it might be interesting" than "it would really improve the game!" category.
On the topic of unit descriptions: while I like the idea of giving hints as to the unit's abilities in a more poetic fashion, this can sometimes be a little confusing, especially since - of necessity, I understand - the descriptions are apparently written by different people. For example, the Elvish Marksman is described as having "lesser speed" yet he is capable of 6 moves a turn, which seems to be a good number for an elvish unit. The Marksman's desc also contains the information that he can hit 60% of his attacks (which, at the risk of sounding extremely anal, can possibly be misinterpreted since it does not specify ranged attacks - I realize however, that this is implied), regardless of terrain, while the Red Mage's desc specifies that he is "good at both day and night" instead of saying that his magic attacks have a 70% chance of hitting (and are also affected by his "Lawful" status). I hate to sound so critical, since I don't intend to just criticize; however, I think these examples serve to illustrate the point that a more uniform system for describing units' special abilities might be helpful. And while I can't guarantee that I will continue to have time, I have started to compile a list of all unit descriptions from the .cfg files, and begun some grammatical editing (my language skills are stronger than my programming ones, though this isn't saying much). If there is interest in standardizing unit descriptions, I would be happy to do some work and post changes to an area that would be open to others. For reference, here are some strictly grammatical changes I would make to the description of the Elvish Shyde while sticking rather closely to the original (original words are in brackets):
"Female elves that are devoted to nature and their faerie side slowly transform into [in] Shides. Dragonfly wings sprout from their [her] backs [back] and change them into [in] beautiful [beutifull] creatures capable of gliding unencumbered through [in] the elven forests."
It's not much of a difference, but I think that these things do contribute to the overall feel of polish on the game. Some of the scenario dialogs could perhaps also benefit from this editing; again if there is agreement or interest here, feel free to let me know.
Wow, I can't believe how long this has gotten. I guess I'll end the post here with a question. What exactly do character traits like strong, resilient, quick, intelligent, and loyal do? Thanks in advance, and thanks again for putting together such a great game.
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yawningdog
- Posts: 96
- Joined: October 5th, 2003, 10:04 pm
- Location: Barcelona
You can check the trait definitions at data/game.cfg"What exactly do character traits like strong, resilient, quick, intelligent, and loyal do?"
Loyal: Seems to do nothing.
Strong: +1 damage for short ranged attacks, +2 hit points.
Quick: +1 movement, -3 hit points.
Intelligent: Decreases in 6 points the experience required to level up.
Resilient: +7 hit points.
Cognito,
Thank you for your comments. Glad to hear that you like the game.
If you would like to submit changes/improvements to unit descriptions, they would be most welcome indeed. With all the work on different aspects of the game, things like unit descriptions sometimes do tend to get left out. I do suggest though, that if you work on unit descriptions, you use the CVS version of the game, and keep it updated. Sithrandel can help you with accessing and compiling from CVS on a Mac.
I think that a system where unit descriptions are 'poetically described', as you put it, but where key phrases which describe actual game rules are bolded, or otherwise highlighted, would be a good way to do it.
For instance, the Elvish Shaman might be described like,
"The Elvish Shaman focuses on less violent ways to hinder her enemies. Her entangling attack wraps her enemies in a net of vines. Enemies struck by an entangling attack receive one less attack, and move slower until the end of their next turn.
The Shaman also possesses basic healing abilities. Injured friendly units that are next to her at the end of their turn receive healing, though the healing is not as effective as from a village, and she lacks the ability to cure poison."
(Code to actually do this kind of bolding doesn't yet exist in the game, but I could look at adding it if people think it's a good idea.)
David
Thank you for your comments. Glad to hear that you like the game.
If you would like to submit changes/improvements to unit descriptions, they would be most welcome indeed. With all the work on different aspects of the game, things like unit descriptions sometimes do tend to get left out. I do suggest though, that if you work on unit descriptions, you use the CVS version of the game, and keep it updated. Sithrandel can help you with accessing and compiling from CVS on a Mac.
I think that a system where unit descriptions are 'poetically described', as you put it, but where key phrases which describe actual game rules are bolded, or otherwise highlighted, would be a good way to do it.
For instance, the Elvish Shaman might be described like,
"The Elvish Shaman focuses on less violent ways to hinder her enemies. Her entangling attack wraps her enemies in a net of vines. Enemies struck by an entangling attack receive one less attack, and move slower until the end of their next turn.
The Shaman also possesses basic healing abilities. Injured friendly units that are next to her at the end of their turn receive healing, though the healing is not as effective as from a village, and she lacks the ability to cure poison."
(Code to actually do this kind of bolding doesn't yet exist in the game, but I could look at adding it if people think it's a good idea.)
These are described in the latest version of the manual (http://www.ventu.info/wesnoth/?WesnothManual), minus exact numerics.Cognito wrote: What exactly do character traits like strong, resilient, quick, intelligent, and loyal do?
Loyal does have a meaning, but it is probably the least valuable of the traits, certainly in multiplayer. But, we don't necessarily want traits to be equal in value anyway -- although the other four seem to be approximately equal.Loyal: The unit never has a maintenance above 1.
Strong: The unit does extra damage in close combat, and has a few more hitpoints.
Quick: The unit has one extra movement point, but a few less hitpoints.
Resilient: The unit has more hitpoints.
Intelligent: The unit requires less experience to advance a level.
David