What happened?

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sam_waz_here
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What happened?

Post by sam_waz_here » June 21st, 2010, 3:41 pm

After feeling a bit of Nostalgia I decided to download the latest Wesnoth build and see how the old game is fairing. I love the new drake designs and it could just be my memory but the music seems better. Before going online I downloaded everything that looked popular including some new era that chucks everything together but when I went online to relive some fond memories, I found a community that is sadly much worse.

When I left Wesnoth in mid 08 there were continuous updates in the downloads section, almost every game had its own custom game type and map combination, a new game started every ten minutes and the community in general knew what they were doing. But looking over the currently played game list, I saw a massive line of default maps being played on the default gametype. I asked about the mods and people either didn't know what I was talking about or were too apprehensive to download anything. I joined an, a new land, game and none of them had even heard of the multifaction mod. I told them about it they said it would be cool to play but when I asked them to download it they suddenly jumped back to, "Lets just start a new game.". Not to sound old but in my day you would join a game, ask what files were required and download them while a spot was left for you to play.

The community I left were always jumping in a survival extreme or modular orocia on extended era, I could barely find a game that didn't require it other than the assorted Isar's cross list but now, now I seem to know more about this game than the people I was asking for pointers.

What happened? Mass Exodus, virus, corrupted files?
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Ken_Oh
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Re: What happened?

Post by Ken_Oh » June 21st, 2010, 4:29 pm

Probably just part of the growing pains of new versions. If add-on packagers don't keep up with the updates, players can't use them on the new servers.

Caphriel
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Re: What happened?

Post by Caphriel » June 21st, 2010, 4:57 pm

This is funny, because the Wesnoth I remember from years ago had way less UMC games running and more default games on default maps. Back in the good old days, as I recall, it wouldn't take ages for a normal 2v2 on a non-Isar's map to fill up, whilst these days it will sit waiting while dozens of survivals, RPGs, and conquest games fill up around it.

I suspect there's some nostalgia bias active on both of our parts :)

I'd love to see a massive line of games being played on default maps with the default game type, and I'm wondering what server you joined to see this :P As I check right now, there are about 80 games being played, of which:
about 20 are default era and default maps, if I include the ladder games using the random map mod, which is a stretch because it includes some non-mainline maps.
14 are Isar's Cross :(
About 15 or 16 are some sort of survival, including Colosseum, SX, and various orocia games
The rest are custom eras, custom maps, or some sort of multiplayer campaign, including RPGs.

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wesfreak
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Re: What happened?

Post by wesfreak » June 22nd, 2010, 6:04 pm

I also went on wesbreak for almost a year and noticed some changes too, mainly that it takes a lot less time for a default map and game to fill up than it does for one with a different era. I'd guess it was an attempt to become more user friendly that did it: Before games would crash because one person didn't have the right era. Now you can't join a game without the right era, and since more people have default than a non-default era people make games in default so more people join faster. (this also acounts for the popularity of isar's cross: it's small and fast, and thus often played, since people don't want to wait long. The downside is isar's cross is notoriously unbalanced).

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Zachron
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Re: What happened?

Post by Zachron » June 23rd, 2010, 2:55 am

A lot of the more mature players--who are largely responsible for the wholesome environment Wesnoth is known for--have to take breaks from Wesnoth whenever other things are more pressing, like jobs, families, and classes. Whereas a newer crowd, who has a lot more leisure time, is younger and has inferior manners(as well as a poor sense of common decency). Sad to say, Wesnoth has caught the attention of the teabaggin' troll larvae.
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Sapient
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Re: What happened?

Post by Sapient » June 23rd, 2010, 3:39 am

There is a yearly cycle that happens with many online communities. Just wait until school starts back in the Fall and the most immature users mysteriously vanish.

Also, the O.P. is way off base... I noticed the opposite trend: these days there are tons of WML-heavy scenarios and very few default maps being played other than Isar's Cross.

When I first started playing on the MP server there were very few WML-heavy maps being played other than a handful by Bhetendos (which oddly included sabotage code to try to prevent others from hosting it), and 6p Hexcake was the most common default map I played, and the popular trend at that time was lots of "Royal Rumble" mods.

After the Royal Rumble fad, there was a Creep Wars fad. Survivals did not catch on until later but they have maintained popularity for a surprisingly long time.

As for eras other than default, I can understand why people don't like using them. They tend to be horribly unbalanced or have some glaring bugs or other inconsistencies. Also, for people with a slow internet connection they tend to take a while to download and keep updated.

Having said that, some of the alternative eras seem to have really great potential and its a pity they never seem to reach it. Maybe the maintainers aren't willing to throw out the bad parts and focus on refining the good parts. Maybe it's just hard to do right.
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sam_waz_here
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Re: What happened?

Post by sam_waz_here » June 23rd, 2010, 4:08 am

Sapient wrote:There is a yearly cycle that happens with many online communities. Just wait until school starts back in the Fall and the most immature users mysteriously vanish.

Also, the O.P. is way off base... I noticed the opposite trend: these days there are tons of WML-heavy scenarios and very few default maps being played other than Isar's Cross.

When I first started playing on the MP server there were very few WML-heavy maps being played other than a handful by Bhetendos (which oddly included sabotage code to try to prevent others from hosting it), and 6p Hexcake was the most common default map I played, and the popular trend at that time was lots of "Royal Rumble" mods.

After the Royal Rumble fad, there was a Creep Wars fad. Survivals did not catch on until later but they have maintained popularity for a surprisingly long time.

As for eras other than default, I can understand why people don't like using them. They tend to be horribly unbalanced or have some glaring bugs or other inconsistencies. Also, for people with a slow internet connection they tend to take a while to download and keep updated.

Having said that, some of the alternative eras seem to have really great potential and its a pity they never seem to reach it. Maybe the maintainers aren't willing to throw out the bad parts and focus on refining the good parts. Maybe it's just hard to do right.
Is the current trend colloseum/conquest?
Where is the love?

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Zachron
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Re: What happened?

Post by Zachron » June 23rd, 2010, 4:21 am

Survivals are universally popular in online strat's, be them turn based or RTS. I attribute the growing popularity of survival maps to the not so gradual trickle of RTS fans that play Wesnoth, and the minority of them who actually stay. Colosseum is very similar to survival in its premise, so it's only natural that the two sets would enjoy parallel growth.

Another thing to bring up, while the majority of new users at any given point are immature players, the majority who stick around for very long are mature people if not mature gamers.(and the few immature people who stick tend to be mature gamers, so it balances out I suppose) This is a more mature community than mosts, even during the summer. (I am an avid StarCraft fan, but I would not be caught dead on battle.net right now)
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Sapient
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Re: What happened?

Post by Sapient » June 23rd, 2010, 4:24 am

sam - try this link and scroll to the bottom:

http://www.wsrsw.org/data.php

"#50 most played MP scenarios"

(yes, Zachron. I was lumping Colosseum with other Survivals)
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."

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Zachron
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Re: What happened?

Post by Zachron » June 23rd, 2010, 5:20 pm

Eh, I was too, but I felt compelled to consider sam_waz_here's comment.
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sam_waz_here
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Re: What happened?

Post by sam_waz_here » June 24th, 2010, 8:03 am

I think I'm noticing a pattern. There is far less variety in the gametypes because apparently people who don't have a specific mod can't join a game which relies on it, or at least that's what I'm told. Assuming I have this correctly in the old versions of Wesnoth if you didn't have a mod but a game looked interesting you could join the game lobby and ask which mod then leave and download it; in this version the game is blacked out and you can't join and can't find out what you need to join future games. Assuming this logic is correct since everyone sees colloseum games and everyone can play colloseum games, everyone makes more colloseum games.

At least that's the only reason I can find for everyone playing a gametype so terrible.

(I consider it terrible because it is repetitive, offers few opportunities for teamwork yet requires at least three players, penalises all players for one making a poor decision, is poorly balanced in favour of ghosts and doesn't mix up the spawns like Sx does.)
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Pentarctagon
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Re: What happened?

Post by Pentarctagon » June 24th, 2010, 8:13 am

whether or not you can join a game depends mostly on what era is being used, not the game itself.
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sam_waz_here
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Re: What happened?

Post by sam_waz_here » June 24th, 2010, 3:13 pm

What's the difference?
Where is the love?

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Pentarctagon
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Re: What happened?

Post by Pentarctagon » June 24th, 2010, 3:41 pm

for example, if I was hosting a World Conquest game on the server using default era, anyone would be able to play (you don't even need to have WC yourself), however if I hosted the same map using Ageless Era then only those people with Ageless Era downloaded would be able to play.
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take one down, patch it around
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