Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

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Rapturous
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Joined: January 10th, 2009, 12:05 pm

Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by Rapturous »

Hey, folks,

I have played an expert campaign or two, and I'm under the impression that in order to succeed, you need some luck on your side--as in, no negative stats. This could very easily be my inexperience or lack of strategic know-how, but I find that if you get a stroke of bad luck, your only option is to restart the mission, or scum. I would like to hear some feedback from folks. No stroking egos, or boasting an arsenal of 30 level 3's on the last mission of TRoW.

Honestly, without scumming or multiple retries, can the expert campaigns be won without luck?

monochromatic
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Re: Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by monochromatic »

I'd say experience.

I'm no master sp player; I've never even finished one of the expert campaigns so far. I've finished all the novice ones and about half the intermediate. But, I remember 2 years ago I was struggling on the Bays of Pearls scenario in HttT on easy. Now that I think about it, I didn't have any experience back then.

We're all constantly improving. Maybe a year or two from now you'll look at that post and laugh. The thing I love about Wesnoth is that it's not a game that once you finish it, you don't play it anymore. There's always more to learn, more to discover.

I suggest you get on the MP server sometime. Watch, play, and listen. Learn from players that have been playing for many years. Watch what they do. Play against them. Listen to their advice. It's the best way to learn.

silent
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Re: Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by silent »

Alternatively post in the strategies part of the forum the campaign, scenario, units you can recall/use and starting gold and people will also be able to help you better

Rapturous
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Re: Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by Rapturous »

So, what I'm hearing is that it is possible, with bad luck, to beat the expert campaigns. Is this right?

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Hulavuta
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Re: Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by Hulavuta »

Yeah, good strategy makes up for bad luck. People have even done expert campaigns with special "challenges" (or not, I don't know which campaigns have been completed with these challenges)
F:tGJ, Saurian Campaign
The Southern Chains, a fanfic
“The difference between winners and champions is that champions are more consistent."
~Sierra


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Hulavuta
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Re: Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by Hulavuta »

I said I didn't know which, which means I don't know if anyone beat a hard one with it. Also I'm lazy.
F:tGJ, Saurian Campaign
The Southern Chains, a fanfic
“The difference between winners and champions is that champions are more consistent."
~Sierra

monochromatic
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Re: Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by monochromatic »

Oh, ok. My bad. :oops:

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Zachron
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Re: Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by Zachron »

The multiplayer server is a good teacher concerning strategy. In MP you do not have the save/load crutch, which forces you to think in the fly and deal with your losses rather than undo them. Inability to debug means you can't just waltz through an unwinnable situation and see what unfolds next. It forces you to learn rather than encouraging you.
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boru
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Re: Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by boru »

Rapturous,

I certainly don't consider myself an expert, but I know the key to winning the expert campaigns comes in leveling up your units. These campaigns are constructed with the assumption that you have a fair number of level three units on your recall list by the end. You don't need an arsenal of 30, but if you're facing an army of level twos and threes and all you have is ones and twos, no amount of luck will help you win.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.

Jozrael
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Re: Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by Jozrael »

It is most definitely possible to beat most any campaign with bad luck, it merely relies on your skill as a player. For example, Northern Rebirth frustrates me. I could probably not beat it with bad luck. I adore UtBS, and I have played through it many times. I could beat that with very, very bad luck (although I wouldn't be happy losing all my shinies T_T)

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Elvish_Conquerer
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Re: Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by Elvish_Conquerer »

Hulavuta wrote:Yeah, good strategy makes up for bad luck. People have even done expert campaigns with special "challenges" (or not, I don't know which campaigns have been completed with these challenges)

There is a challenge thread, but if you don't want to go into it, some of the notable ones are:

NR- Peasants/No Dwarves/Only Recruits/

HTTT- Shamans/

etc

Most entail taking the weakest unit and only using it, or no recalls. Now, even though this is not bad luck per se, it is an example of having terrible odds and still winning through tactics, strategy, and experience.
"Not only that! He made the AI so smart that, it changes the RNG without affecting statistical analysis! So even if you calculate the probability of getting what you got, it seems reasonable, even though it isn't. We've uncovered a massive conspiracy!"

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beetlenaut
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Re: Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by beetlenaut »

Rapturous wrote:No stroking egos, or boasting an arsenal of 30 level 3's on the last mission of TRoW.
But getting lots of high level units is how you do it. That's one thing you get much better at with experience. 30 level 3's is about right for the end of TRoW. I would have thought it was impossible at one time, but it's definitely not.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
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Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide

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Zachron
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Re: Are the expert campaigns doable without +stats?

Post by Zachron »

boru wrote:Rapturous,

I certainly don't consider myself an expert, but I know the key to winning the expert campaigns comes in leveling up your units. These campaigns are constructed with the assumption that you have a fair number of level three units on your recall list by the end. You don't need an arsenal of 30, but if you're facing an army of level twos and threes and all you have is ones and twos, no amount of luck will help you win.
Not entirely true. In a few of these campaigns, it was the advent of the high level enemies which gave rise to my possession of a core of high level units. As long as you be sure to give certain units slightly preferential treatment, you can build a higher level core. If you use your level 2's to help level up your level 1's and our level 3's to help level up you level 2's you can get a large core of level 2's and level 3's. The key is to have some patience, yet also some urgency. Almost invariably the second scenario give you your first level 2's.
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