What happened to thugs?

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Molean
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What happened to thugs?

Post by Molean » April 30th, 2010, 9:54 pm

It use to be that knalgan alliance had a unit called thug, or something like that. A melee only unit with 4 or so good impact hits. But now when I play that faction, I don't see it as a option to recruit.

Someone told me you need to choose a particular leader to get it as a option? This sounded unlikely, and I have tried a few different leaders and not gotten it as a option. The person sounded sure, but then said that maybe that was the case in a earlier version.

So, whats the deal with that unit? Why was it removed? Will we see it again?

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PeterPorty
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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by PeterPorty » April 30th, 2010, 10:11 pm

Up to my understanding, the "Thug" unit still exists, but just isn't recriutable in multiplayer, that is because thhe Knalgas already have enough "hevay hitters" and anotherone would probably cause the faction to be overpowered.
Of course, I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.
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Zerovirus
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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by Zerovirus » April 30th, 2010, 10:15 pm

How would that work? If a faction has lots of heavy hitters how is one more going to make a difference? The niche is supposedly filled by many other units so another unit shouldn't change much.

That and I like the new thug graphics. It's the only outlaw unit with graphics up to par now...

Velensk
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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by Velensk » April 30th, 2010, 10:26 pm

Removed for reasons of balance against undead I believe.

If current testing is indicative, it wasn't enough.
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PeterPorty
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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by PeterPorty » April 30th, 2010, 10:28 pm

Well, it does change much, as the thug has 4 attacks... and thats more than any other Knalga unit, again, up to where I know, I'm not sure.
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monochromatic
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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by monochromatic » April 30th, 2010, 10:34 pm

Thugs make Knalgans overpowered against undead. They nerf skellies, DAs, and Bats. They do decent damage to ghouls and ghosts (strong thugs do 3-4 and they resist arcane 20%). Plus being cheaper than all of the undead's core units.

Blarumyrran
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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by Blarumyrran » April 30th, 2010, 10:36 pm

Thug deals 20 impact per 13 gold, while dwarf fighter does 16 impact per 16 gold & footpad does a pathetic 10 impact per 14 gold. I think it used to be that skeletons were more central to undead than they are now, so the impact mattered more.

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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by Velensk » April 30th, 2010, 10:46 pm

Even now, impact is still useful as ghouls resist it less.
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Zerovirus
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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by Zerovirus » April 30th, 2010, 10:46 pm

On the same note, what happened to Chocobones? I don't think I've seen them in MP for a while now. Perhaps I missed some memo along the way?

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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by Blarumyrran » April 30th, 2010, 10:51 pm

"for a while now"? They've never been in Default, afaik

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Zerovirus
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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by Zerovirus » April 30th, 2010, 10:54 pm

Really?

Hm.

Welp, I think the fact that I've maybe played 8 MP matches in my life ever has something to do with that. Still, I recall reading ancient threads discussing the effect of Chocobones in MP, something along the lines of "Chocobones act similarily to Ulfs in MP; they aren't that powerful if dealt with effectively but otherwise are a powerful threat. When I see chocobones in enemy forces, I go for them as the primary target."

And I think I recall seeing them recruitable in some previous version... 1.6?

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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by Velensk » April 30th, 2010, 11:22 pm

If they ever were recruitable it was before .9
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shadowm
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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by shadowm » April 30th, 2010, 11:34 pm

Actually, that would be before version 1.0.1, according to the changelog.
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Zerovirus
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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by Zerovirus » April 30th, 2010, 11:38 pm

I must either have been pretty darn deep in the Strategies and Tips section or my memory had a slight corruption then.

Molean
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Re: What happened to thugs?

Post by Molean » April 30th, 2010, 11:43 pm

I would say undead have a advantage against the knalgan alliance, since that faction lacks any kind of fire or arcane damage, which makes their ghost unit especially useful. If someone spams thugs, you spam ghosts and dark adepts.

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