Determining Game Balance
Moderator: Forum Moderators
Determining Game Balance
This is mostly out of curiosity: how is balance between factions determined? I see many units in the mainline with lots of work put into them, but are left out of factions due to balance. It almost seems like a waste. Almost.
This question sort of came up while playing 1.8, and I was excited to see the new dwarven scouts in action, only to be disappointed that they're not recruitable.
This question sort of came up while playing 1.8, and I was excited to see the new dwarven scouts in action, only to be disappointed that they're not recruitable.
Re: Determining Game Balance
Faction balance is mostly experimentally determined, I believe.
- thespaceinvader
- Retired Art Director
- Posts: 8414
- Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
- Location: Oxford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Determining Game Balance
Play testing. Play testing play testing play testing.
etc.
etc.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Re: Determining Game Balance
Some things in this game really work when I can't, for the life of me, figure out how they manage it. The Orcish Archer, for example, seems like a completely dysfunctional unit. Horrible melee attack, weak ranged attack, modest cost (expensive, even, for what it does), and it seems like the only reason I would ever buy one is because it alone (Pillager doesn't count) on the Northerner roster has a fire attack... a relatively weak one at that.
Yet the Orcish Archer definitely works and works well. I've never really been disappointed by its performance, never ran roughshod all over a Northerner player because of its failings, and, as far as I understand it, nobody seems to want it changed.
Yet the Orcish Archer definitely works and works well. I've never really been disappointed by its performance, never ran roughshod all over a Northerner player because of its failings, and, as far as I understand it, nobody seems to want it changed.
Re: Determining Game Balance
Also, the elves. They have awesome dodges, okay HP, and the fighter deals 6-4 blade whereas most other factions deal between 6-3 and 5-4 melee! And yet they're not overpowered somehow. Perhaps it's the higher-than-usual prices for the main fighter and archer units in their faction?
Mainline is extraordinarily balanced compared to almost all mainstream RTS or TBS games; another facet I love about Wesnoth.
Mainline is extraordinarily balanced compared to almost all mainstream RTS or TBS games; another facet I love about Wesnoth.
- Pentarctagon
- Project Manager
- Posts: 5527
- Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
- Location: Earth (occasionally)
Re: Determining Game Balance
a strong fighter has 6-4 melee
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
Re: Determining Game Balance
Huh. I must get strong ones a lot. Or I notice them a lot more.
But 5-4 is actually still higher than most other base damages. The spearman has 5-3, the Grunt has, uhh... 9-2 I think. Merman fighter has 6-3...
I think the only one with a higher base damage total would be the Heavy Infantryman, and that's 13-2 I think.
But 5-4 is actually still higher than most other base damages. The spearman has 5-3, the Grunt has, uhh... 9-2 I think. Merman fighter has 6-3...
I think the only one with a higher base damage total would be the Heavy Infantryman, and that's 13-2 I think.
- Pentarctagon
- Project Manager
- Posts: 5527
- Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
- Location: Earth (occasionally)
Re: Determining Game Balance
a goblin spearman's attack is 5-3, a human's spearman's attack is 7-3.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
Re: Determining Game Balance
12-2*Zerovirus wrote: Heavy Infantryman, and that's 13-2
EDIT: I assumed he couldn't be MORE than 1 off and knew I'd seen a 12-2 <_<. Uber fail!
Last edited by Jozrael on May 1st, 2010, 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Pentarctagon
- Project Manager
- Posts: 5527
- Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
- Location: Earth (occasionally)
Re: Determining Game Balance
actually, its 11-2
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
-
- Posts: 1549
- Joined: June 18th, 2009, 1:45 am
Re: Determining Game Balance
Gobos get 6-3Pentarctagon wrote:a goblin spearman's attack is 5-3, a human's spearman's attack is 7-3.
-
- Moderator Emeritus
- Posts: 2232
- Joined: March 26th, 2004, 10:58 pm
- Location: New York, New York
Re: Determining Game Balance
For those citing unit statistics - units.wesnoth.org is a useful way to double-check your figures before you post.
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: Determining Game Balance
You see, this is the reason why I suck at Wesnoth. I can't even get unit stats straight
Re: Determining Game Balance
If it's already tightly balanced now, I can see why it's difficult to add more; then they'll have to go playtest for hours to make sure it's still balanced. But...shouldn't they try anyway? I would like to see the game evolve after all, and add more variety to possible strategies in play.
Re: Determining Game Balance
There's no good reason to do that; the metagame is still evolving. It's not like there's a by-the-book right way to play each matchup.