Determining Game Balance

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TheRugi
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Determining Game Balance

Post by TheRugi »

This is mostly out of curiosity: how is balance between factions determined? I see many units in the mainline with lots of work put into them, but are left out of factions due to balance. It almost seems like a waste. Almost.

This question sort of came up while playing 1.8, and I was excited to see the new dwarven scouts in action, only to be disappointed that they're not recruitable.
Caphriel
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by Caphriel »

Faction balance is mostly experimentally determined, I believe.
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thespaceinvader
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by thespaceinvader »

Play testing. Play testing play testing play testing.

etc.
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sLaughter
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by sLaughter »

Some things in this game really work when I can't, for the life of me, figure out how they manage it. The Orcish Archer, for example, seems like a completely dysfunctional unit. Horrible melee attack, weak ranged attack, modest cost (expensive, even, for what it does), and it seems like the only reason I would ever buy one is because it alone (Pillager doesn't count) on the Northerner roster has a fire attack... a relatively weak one at that.

Yet the Orcish Archer definitely works and works well. I've never really been disappointed by its performance, never ran roughshod all over a Northerner player because of its failings, and, as far as I understand it, nobody seems to want it changed.
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Zerovirus
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by Zerovirus »

Also, the elves. They have awesome dodges, okay HP, and the fighter deals 6-4 blade whereas most other factions deal between 6-3 and 5-4 melee! And yet they're not overpowered somehow. Perhaps it's the higher-than-usual prices for the main fighter and archer units in their faction?

Mainline is extraordinarily balanced compared to almost all mainstream RTS or TBS games; another facet I love about Wesnoth.
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Pentarctagon
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by Pentarctagon »

a strong fighter has 6-4 melee
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
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Zerovirus
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by Zerovirus »

Huh. I must get strong ones a lot. Or I notice them a lot more.

But 5-4 is actually still higher than most other base damages. The spearman has 5-3, the Grunt has, uhh... 9-2 I think. Merman fighter has 6-3...

I think the only one with a higher base damage total would be the Heavy Infantryman, and that's 13-2 I think.
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Pentarctagon
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by Pentarctagon »

a goblin spearman's attack is 5-3, a human's spearman's attack is 7-3.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
Jozrael
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by Jozrael »

Zerovirus wrote: Heavy Infantryman, and that's 13-2
12-2*

EDIT: I assumed he couldn't be MORE than 1 off and knew I'd seen a 12-2 <_<. Uber fail!
Last edited by Jozrael on May 1st, 2010, 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pentarctagon
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by Pentarctagon »

actually, its 11-2 :P
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
monochromatic
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by monochromatic »

Pentarctagon wrote:a goblin spearman's attack is 5-3, a human's spearman's attack is 7-3.
Gobos get 6-3
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by Sangel »

For those citing unit statistics - units.wesnoth.org is a useful way to double-check your figures before you post. ;-)
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Zerovirus
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by Zerovirus »

You see, this is the reason why I suck at Wesnoth. I can't even get unit stats straight :P
TheRugi
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by TheRugi »

If it's already tightly balanced now, I can see why it's difficult to add more; then they'll have to go playtest for hours to make sure it's still balanced. But...shouldn't they try anyway? I would like to see the game evolve after all, and add more variety to possible strategies in play.
Caphriel
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Re: Determining Game Balance

Post by Caphriel »

There's no good reason to do that; the metagame is still evolving. It's not like there's a by-the-book right way to play each matchup.
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