The lobby chatting petition
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The lobby chatting petition
Today, I went through a long argument against Noy4 and kill about banning people that chat in the lobby. I did not say that it should be completely removed, but about 2 minutes before this argument happened someone was banned for probably 7 days for chatting in the lobby. A 7 day ban for a rule that basically states: "your not aloud to talk to your friends in our lobby, or affiliate yourself with other members in a regular manner unless you want to play one of our games" I brought up points to the argument like: banning people that actually talk to other players creates more losses to the server then just one. I have proof of this. The player "Caboose" who was banned before hand for talking in the lobby was friends with a player named "Bobo" who stayed in the argument with me to try to get his friend unbanned. Bobo said he quit the game for a long time because he lost one of his friends that he played with and didn't know when he would get back. One unnecessary ban, so far lost Wesnoth 2 players. The argument continued for awhile, and when the two people arguing against me had nothing left to prove I was wrong, and a few people in the lobby started agreeing with me, Noy said "I suggest you join a game or be banned" All because I was trying to help the community get a little larger... Well I didn't back down because I thought this was a valid point and if noone stuck up for it, many players will have quit because of bans in a small game that has no real reason for them to come back. Needless to say, I'm banned now. Trying to be the voice of the players of Wesnoth and help them out in a civilized manner. Banned. 7 days for trying to prove a valid point. Banning one player in the chat of Wesnoth lost Wesnoth atleast 4 players because I know my friend that I play with will quit to.
Whoever thinks that this is not fair at all, reply at help me show some attention to the light. 5 players in the lobby agreeing with me obviously wasn't enough and just ended up in me getting banned, so I need your guys' help because I can no longer join the 1.6 server.
Whoever thinks that this is not fair at all, reply at help me show some attention to the light. 5 players in the lobby agreeing with me obviously wasn't enough and just ended up in me getting banned, so I need your guys' help because I can no longer join the 1.6 server.
Re: The lobby chatting petition
Here's the rub.
We're all just users. Just like you. We have no idea what happened, and even if we did we can't help you get unbanned. You can contact one of the multiplayer moderators if you have an issue.
We're all just users. Just like you. We have no idea what happened, and even if we did we can't help you get unbanned. You can contact one of the multiplayer moderators if you have an issue.
Re: The lobby chatting petition
I don't want to get unbanned. I want more support on this rule to be more lenient. If you go banning players for chatting in a lobby because apparently there are "complaints" from one person and everyone starts getting banned, the game won't grow. For the people that already play, I'm sure they want more players so there is less of a wait for larger games to start and can actually play games with people other then their friends because there will actually be people to play with.
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PeterPorty
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Re: The lobby chatting petition
[Off_Topic] uhhh... did you actually call wesnoth a -small- game? [/Off_Topic]
Man, I'm a user, and I believe banning disturbing users is better for the comunity than not banning them.... and, well, if you are against moderators AND users you should really leave the game... seriously....we are a comunity and we like each other... people who don't get banned.
just to close this, the lobby is supposed to be for arranging games, that's why there is a private message function, if you don't use it, you are disturbing.
hope you think about it and... well, just either change your attitude or leave, please, not trying to be harsh, just trying to keep peace..
Man, I'm a user, and I believe banning disturbing users is better for the comunity than not banning them.... and, well, if you are against moderators AND users you should really leave the game... seriously....we are a comunity and we like each other... people who don't get banned.
just to close this, the lobby is supposed to be for arranging games, that's why there is a private message function, if you don't use it, you are disturbing.
hope you think about it and... well, just either change your attitude or leave, please, not trying to be harsh, just trying to keep peace..
"The real world is for people who can't imagine anything better."
Re: The lobby chatting petition
So lets bring levity to this conversation.
First off we don't "ban" people summarily like a first strike. We tend to ask them to move along and stop chatting, encouraging them to start games. Bans are pretty rare, I think in the last two years I've banned maybe 10 people, if that (and most of those had other issues like flaming involved)
Why do we do this? The 1.6 lobby is limited in function, and with over 160 users online at a time it can't handle people chatting all the time. This is particularly a problem when you had people from different languages chatting at one time and text rapidly scrolled up before you could even read a line of it. We received dozens if not a hundred complaints about this problem. So the no idle chatting rule was installed to ensure that it could be used as an effective form of communication. If people wanted to idly chat, they could go to games. This was to ensure fairness to all people who use the lobby. We weren't hard about it, generally moderators let people chat for about ten minutes (or sooner if they were disruptive) before asking they go into a game.
As I noted above we also don't ban first. We talk and explain the issue to players. Its only if individuals become obstinate or just refuse to listen we ban. It worked and we don't have nearly the complaints we do. Actually I get more complaints about people breaking the rules then I do about the rule itself. With the rule in place we went from an average of under a hundred users on the server to over now 200 regularly. That kinda invalidates your argument that this will be the collapse of wesnoth multiplayer.
All that said, this is actually not what happened with Caboose today. He's been banned twice before, once for over a month for doing far worse things than chatting. This included flaming users and antisocial behavior. Today he continued that trend, so I asked him to move it to a game. He didn't and continued to flame on the server so I banned. Here's a transcript: (with a few edits because of length)
This continued so I banned Caboose. ITs just more of the same behavior from him and we don't tolerate that.
You on the other hand was a different matter altogether. I probably should have just banned you with Caboose for egging him on. Instead I engaged in an discussion with you to explain the rules. Yet you were being egregious to the point where Kill,a person who has disagreed with other aspects of moderation in the past, was actually agreeing with me. That should tell you something. When I tried explaining to you the fact we had serious complaints about excessive chatting you just became obsequious. It came down to the point where you said I should just ignore their complaints and listen to yours. So instead I decided to do to you what you advocate what I do to others: ignore your complaint and enforce the rules as they stand.
So you were banned. I do admit that the original ban seemed long so I've reduced to to a day. I suggest you don't break them again.
First off we don't "ban" people summarily like a first strike. We tend to ask them to move along and stop chatting, encouraging them to start games. Bans are pretty rare, I think in the last two years I've banned maybe 10 people, if that (and most of those had other issues like flaming involved)
Why do we do this? The 1.6 lobby is limited in function, and with over 160 users online at a time it can't handle people chatting all the time. This is particularly a problem when you had people from different languages chatting at one time and text rapidly scrolled up before you could even read a line of it. We received dozens if not a hundred complaints about this problem. So the no idle chatting rule was installed to ensure that it could be used as an effective form of communication. If people wanted to idly chat, they could go to games. This was to ensure fairness to all people who use the lobby. We weren't hard about it, generally moderators let people chat for about ten minutes (or sooner if they were disruptive) before asking they go into a game.
As I noted above we also don't ban first. We talk and explain the issue to players. Its only if individuals become obstinate or just refuse to listen we ban. It worked and we don't have nearly the complaints we do. Actually I get more complaints about people breaking the rules then I do about the rule itself. With the rule in place we went from an average of under a hundred users on the server to over now 200 regularly. That kinda invalidates your argument that this will be the collapse of wesnoth multiplayer.
All that said, this is actually not what happened with Caboose today. He's been banned twice before, once for over a month for doing far worse things than chatting. This included flaming users and antisocial behavior. Today he continued that trend, so I asked him to move it to a game. He didn't and continued to flame on the server so I banned. Here's a transcript: (with a few edits because of length)
Spoiler:
You on the other hand was a different matter altogether. I probably should have just banned you with Caboose for egging him on. Instead I engaged in an discussion with you to explain the rules. Yet you were being egregious to the point where Kill,a person who has disagreed with other aspects of moderation in the past, was actually agreeing with me. That should tell you something. When I tried explaining to you the fact we had serious complaints about excessive chatting you just became obsequious. It came down to the point where you said I should just ignore their complaints and listen to yours. So instead I decided to do to you what you advocate what I do to others: ignore your complaint and enforce the rules as they stand.
Spoiler:
I suspect having one foot in the past is the best way to understand the present.
Don Hewitt.
Don Hewitt.
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ParadiseCity
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Re: The lobby chatting petition
EDIT: I did not see noy's post before mine. I think he hit it on the mark. (I mean you asked to be banned after being asked to talk in-game 
).
Even if there was some injustice done, I still believe that the lobby is not the correct place for more than brief conversations. At that point you could simply host a game and talk there with your friends. Who knows, you might have more fun playing while you talk
.
You also might be interested in a new function on the 1.8 server. When you use the /whisper command it will open up a "whisper conversation" for you. That way you could have a conversation with a single person without chatting on the main lobby.
EDIT2: (For noy's response below me) Yep, I assumed that he was being unbaised which is a dangerous thing to do. My bad.
).Even if there was some injustice done, I still believe that the lobby is not the correct place for more than brief conversations. At that point you could simply host a game and talk there with your friends. Who knows, you might have more fun playing while you talk
.You also might be interested in a new function on the 1.8 server. When you use the /whisper command it will open up a "whisper conversation" for you. That way you could have a conversation with a single person without chatting on the main lobby.
EDIT2: (For noy's response below me) Yep, I assumed that he was being unbaised which is a dangerous thing to do. My bad.
Last edited by ParadiseCity on April 8th, 2010, 11:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"The harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -Thomas Jefferson
Re: The lobby chatting petition
Uh if you read the first paragraph of my post, thats precisely what we do.ParadiseCity wrote:While I understand where the multiplayer devs are coming from with this, I also do not agree with banning players for talking in the lobby (at least for a week)
I would support more careful enforcement, and maybe less-harsh punishment for non-repeat offenders. However, I still believe that the lobby is not the correct place for more than brief conversations. At that point you could simply host a game and talk there with your friends. Who knows, you might have more fun playing while you talk
I suspect having one foot in the past is the best way to understand the present.
Don Hewitt.
Don Hewitt.
Re: The lobby chatting petition
Well the sad thing is Renigade is probably right in principle but was so obnoxious that he deserved to lose. I'm not sorry for him.
CHKDSK has repaired bad sectors in CHKDSK.EXE
Re: The lobby chatting petition
You should understand something renigade, rules are there for a reason, some people randomly dont get drunk and decide to put something up as a rule overnight. You kept arguing and still dont get the point that main lobby chat is for organizing games and not for long casual talk.
Noy has pointed out some more reasons why 1.6 chat is not suitable for it. The point is that the rules are there for a reason and try to understand that(Obviously there are bad rules, but this one certainly is not one of them).
Noy has pointed out some more reasons why 1.6 chat is not suitable for it. The point is that the rules are there for a reason and try to understand that(Obviously there are bad rules, but this one certainly is not one of them).
Re: The lobby chatting petition
Case in point. Just edit->find his name.joshudson wrote:was so obnoxious that he deserved to lose.
Re: The lobby chatting petition
No, Noy didn't let me finish my explanation on why other peoples complaints should be ignored. I'll finish it now seeing as I can't be randomly cut off.
Half if not more of those complaints were probably sent in by people who do the same thing, and chat in the lobby. That would make them Hypocrites, and that would be basically, you complaining to someone to make me shutup, so you can talk more. Doesn't seem like a good system if I may say so myself. And the top top log, yes I saw that, I was there. Caboose is a big flamer I get that, but you do realize he was having a conversation with his friend who quit the game because you banned Caboose which totally denies your statement, and was doing the same thing to me, but I don't mind because we insult each other on a daily basis so its more of a routine. I don't call that flaming unless of course your using the definition that I would use to describe that, which would be Caboose being gay.
Half if not more of those complaints were probably sent in by people who do the same thing, and chat in the lobby. That would make them Hypocrites, and that would be basically, you complaining to someone to make me shutup, so you can talk more. Doesn't seem like a good system if I may say so myself. And the top top log, yes I saw that, I was there. Caboose is a big flamer I get that, but you do realize he was having a conversation with his friend who quit the game because you banned Caboose which totally denies your statement, and was doing the same thing to me, but I don't mind because we insult each other on a daily basis so its more of a routine. I don't call that flaming unless of course your using the definition that I would use to describe that, which would be Caboose being gay.
Re: The lobby chatting petition
I've read the chat from both lobbies, and as is typically the case in these dust ups, the player is not as innocent as originally claimed. You were asked to take your chat into a game. Rather than do the sensible thing and just start a game (or even just use whispers), you decided to make a stand and show the world you're above the moderator's law.
It's a simple rule. The lobby has only a few lines of chat available. It's not built to support massive chat like a chat room. It's designed to organize games. After this was explained to you, you lost your cool and went on a mini rampage.
Your argument about Caboose is a bit moot, since you didn't understand his history of violation. Obviously a repeat offender is on a shorter leash.
And with your parting shot, you basically lost credibility claiming to have a rational dispute.
Locked.
It's a simple rule. The lobby has only a few lines of chat available. It's not built to support massive chat like a chat room. It's designed to organize games. After this was explained to you, you lost your cool and went on a mini rampage.
Your argument about Caboose is a bit moot, since you didn't understand his history of violation. Obviously a repeat offender is on a shorter leash.
It's a bit unfair and pretentious to call yourself the voice of wesnoth players.Needless to say, I'm banned now. Trying to be the voice of the players of Wesnoth and help them out in a civilized manner. Banned. 7 days for trying to prove a valid point.
And with your parting shot, you basically lost credibility claiming to have a rational dispute.
Spoiler:
Locked.