Host power abuse in isars cross

[artisticdude]

Well seriously, few people are going to admit they're noobs, and some will even think they're pretty darn skilled, and then they can't understand why they're losing the game. Which I frankly don't understand. However, I do not think it is necessary to classify who is advanced and who is a beginner, because I should think that would make the beginners feel uncomfortable and looked down on, even if the advanced people are trying to help. Experience is the only way to learn, and no amount of teaching will accomplish anything unless you're willing to put forth the time and effort to take what you are taught and put it to use.

[ElvenKing]

I do not think that everyone should feel obliged to ask "Now, any newbies in here?" in a nicer wording before the beginning of a game. Any new/unexperiened player should be able to play happily, lose happily, learn happily, and gradually start winning happily without having it rubbed in that he is still new. When I entered MP, I do not even remember people writing stuff like "You noob! Go there, there, there!" Only "Good game, lets rmk guys". And it should stay like that. If I would be hosting a game, I would hate to ask "Now guys, let's know, how's it going with your skills" before clicking "Start Game".

I don't think it would be offensive to ask "do you guys play Wesnoth much?" and that would be something to start some friendly conversation, regardless.

But if you don't care about offending people then just put it right in the title of the game, "NO n00bs!" -- although, I don't recommend it because you'll probably attract the wrong type of attention with that approach.

Actually, from what I've seen, titles like that attract the very people they are trying to avoid or have little to no effect(I couldn't say which). In some instances they are even hosted by N00bs.

[Gambit]

Yeah; noobs are drawn to where they're not wanted. Noobs are the kind of people who glitch inside walls in FPS's.
Those people should title their games "no newbs" since that would be more accurate, and I think most newbs would listen.

[Caphriel]

In some instances they are even hosted by N00bs.

Isn't pretty much every game with a name including "no noobs!" or "pros only!" or "experienced players only!" hosted by someone who would qualify as a noob in most jurisdictions?

Also, I only ever see those headings on Isar's Cross or UMC games. As far as UMC goes, that sort of attitude really makes it difficult for a player to learn that UMC. Conquest, for instance. I understand it's a long game and that a beginner can make the outcome unpredictable, but if everyone who plays it only plays with people who are experienced with it, how are new players supposed to become part of the Conquest community?

Trying to avoid new players is counter-productive; it just makes the community insular and drives off potential players. If I were new to Wesnoth and joined the official server, I'd possibly be driven off by a lobby full of games that have titles excluding me.

[kill]

Trying to avoid new players is counter-productive; it just makes the community insular and drives off potential players. If I were new to Wesnoth and joined the official server, I'd possibly be driven off by a lobby full of games that have titles excluding me.

Many experienced players are willing to devote time and play UMC with the sole intention of teaching if the new player is receptive enough and has a good attitude.

Most of you latter posters have deviated from the original topic without even replying to it

[artisticdude]

What's to reply to? If you think there's is a problem, take it up with a multiplayer mod, we regular registered users are not qualified to deal with it. This thread won't solve matters, and it may even make them worse.

[ElvenKing]

In some instances they are even hosted by N00bs.

Isn't pretty much every game with a name including "no noobs!" or "pros only!" or "experienced players only!" hosted by someone who would qualify as a noob in most jurisdictions?

Well, a lot of the ones I have seen, yes, but I wanted to avoid making blanket statements, as I don't exactly hang around the Isar crowd that much; it was perfectly possible that the ones I had seen were only a certain proportion of the games titled: "NO N00BS" or some variation thereof.

[IPS]

If the things what I had read in this thread are true, you didnt had a reason to do to your team lose. If I was him I had kicked you too.

Kill, playing bad intentionally to make to your team lossing is much worst than a n00b sucking the game. Atleast the noob try to do his best to help, but the problem is anybody appreciates his moves because them aren't at all good.

But people are really hostile againist n00bs, them are only learning how to play. Lossing by n00b is not a problem, but if your teammate suck you the game its really a problem.

[kill]

If the things what I had read in this thread are true, you didnt had a reason to do to your team lose. If I was him I had kicked you too.

You need to read the replies more carefully then, besides the whole point of attaching a replay was for you to decide on your own.

[IPS]

Kill, I think you are right

Chains had put his leader in swamp square to poison an elvish fighter, after the combat, 36 hp is reduced to only 22. The Elvish Fighter in that village was strong 6-4 and because the orichs slayer blade weakness the elvish fighter does 8-4 (se he needed of only 3 hits to kill)

3 hit of 4 in 40% def is really a big risk, He had more than a 21% to die (not incluiding the 4th hit). So he had a good percent to die.

The big error DIDNT come of the purple (kill), The error what had did this defeat posible is this risk from red in the swamp (chains).

Kill, I think you had lost because a risk of the red, that risk did changed the game.


About turn 21 (the most important):
You could kill the blue in the turn 21 .... wose has 20% def in plains... you needed 3 hits to kill it, you had exactly a 51,2% to kill him with your assasin. And Night time did cover you :/

If your Slayer hits only 2 times, the red troll RockBolder could kill it 1 fist. With a awesome percent to kill the blues leader.


About turn 22
You with your slayer could atacked his leader in village with your poisonous darts, this can't kill the blue, but this move scares a lot to your enemy and he should need to foward to save his leader againist the assasin. That was another great move lost...

About turn 23
You could reach the castle and poison his leader with the poisonous darts, the same as turn 22 this make many terror in your opponent making him moving worst.

About Turn 25
You should atacked the leader in woods and your alie kill it with his naga.


Well... atleast you had won, but you could won earlie and you shouldnt be kicked, maybe the others had saw your misstakes in these turns, but Chain did a awesome horror in that turn.

[kill]

Kill, I think you are right

Chains had put his leader in swamp square to poison an elvish fighter, after the combat, 36 hp is reduced to only 22. The Elvish Fighter in that village was strong 6-4 and because the orichs slayer blade weakness the elvish fighter does 8-4 (se he needed of only 3 hits to kill)

3 hit of 4 in 40% def is really a big risk, He had more than a 21% to die (not incluiding the 4th hit). So he had a good percent to die.

The big error DIDNT come of the purple (kill), The error what had did this defeat posible is this risk from red in the swamp (chains).

Kill, I think you had lost because a risk of the red, that risk did changed the game.


About turn 21 (the most important):
You could kill the blue in the turn 21 .... wose has 20% def in plains... you needed 3 hits to kill it, you had exactly a 51,2% to kill him with your assasin. And Night time did cover you :/

If your Slayer hits only 2 times, the red troll RockBolder could kill it 1 fist. With a awesome percent to kill the blues leader.


About turn 22
You with your slayer could atacked his leader in village with your poisonous darts, this can't kill the blue, but this move scares a lot to your enemy and he should need to foward to save his leader againist the assasin. That was another great move lost...

About turn 23
You could reach the castle and poison his leader with the poisonous darts, the same as turn 22 this make many terror in your opponent making him moving worst.

About Turn 25
You should atacked the leader in woods and your alie kill it with his naga.


Well... atleast you had won, but you could won earlie and you shouldnt be kicked, maybe the others had saw your misstakes in these turns, but Chain did a awesome horror in that turn.

Finally somone neutrally judged the game, btw i was kicked at around turn 15, so everything you have pointed out are yet more blunders of chains

[Mystique]

In my opinion, the Noob - Veteran relationship is pretty well in Wesnoth MP, and most of the Players are aware that it is just a game, and that it takes its time to learn and get better...

What, however, leads easily to prejudices and tensions, are Players which do not feel the necessity to behave...

On the Noob Side, it is Players which play terrible, and then leave without any comment, right in the middle of the Game, with an Ally most likely doomed to lose.
I myself have experienced this behavior quite some times, and in some cases, the same Player
made the same mistakes again and again, without showing any intention to learn...
Others blame their "bad Luck" again and again, and finally leave, "because the game is so [censored] unprofessional", and they "have no chance to win at all under such circumstances"...
So, I can truly understand, if some veteran Players dont have much patience anymore...

On the Pro side, it is Players, which are looking down on everybody which is not on their Skill Level...
I played a pretty nice 2Vs2 Game lately, which lost all attraction, after a bored, self-proclaimed "Pro" joined as observer, and started to comment our "bad moves", our "missing Brains", our "Inability to make the easiest and most clearly moves", and how much we amuse him...
After that game, i was in no mood to play for some time...

But of course, it cant be the Job of the Officials to punish every inappropriate behavior...
So, the current, best solution for everybody who is fed up of some behaviors is, in my personal oppinion, the use of the "ignore" function, which allows every Player to "sign" other Players and to keep them out of the own Games...

Still, an official ranking system, for which players could sign up or not, would be a nice feature, but of course, thats just my personal feeling...

[Icarusvogel]

I do not think that everyone should feel obliged to ask "Now, any newbies in here?" in a nicer wording before the beginning of a game. Any new/unexperiened player should be able to play happily, lose happily, learn happily, and gradually start winning happily without having it rubbed in that he is still new. When I entered MP, I do not even remember people writing stuff like "You noob! Go there, there, there!" Only "Good game, lets rmk guys". And it should stay like that. If I would be hosting a game, I would hate to ask "Now guys, let's know, how's it going with your skills" before clicking "Start Game".

I don't think it would be offensive to ask "do you guys play Wesnoth much?" and that would be something to start some friendly conversation, regardless.

But if you don't care about offending people then just put it right in the title of the game, "NO n00bs!" -- although, I don't recommend it because you'll probably attract the wrong type of attention with that approach.

Attention?
If I were a moderator, I would advise those people in a more or less friendly way to stop making such titles to their game.

[Yogibear]

I played a pretty nice 2Vs2 Game lately, which lost all attraction, after a bored, self-proclaimed "Pro" joined as observer, and started to comment our "bad moves", our "missing Brains", our "Inability to make the easiest and most clearly moves", and how much we amuse him...
After that game, i was in no mood to play for some time...

Check out the "mute" command, fantastic stuff for that

[Euthanatos93]

I find this situation to be quite akin to something I occasionally experience in in Alien Arena's CTF games. Some jack- grabs the flag and finds a hiding spot and purposely sabotage's their own side. It's basically trolling. In such situations the CoC line discussed certainly doesn't apply. Now, I'd also throw out there that the OP might have just been trying to save face (by not realising that doing this essentially just makes himself look like a jack-) by claiming to have intentially bombed a game in which he really just sucked because he's a noob. Either way CoC line doesn't apply because for all intents and purposes the host cannot be obliged to discriminate when such admission are made.

The OP does have a right to protest abusive language, however.

As to the 'no noobs' title. Yeah, that's just asking for it. I personally never join any games labeled as such because, as has been stated, it is a noob magnet if not hosted by a noob. Same reason I boot & ban players in a make screen who tell me to 'go'. I've found that %90 of 'go' sayers leave withing the first 3 turns.