Saurians

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Aethaeryn
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Re: Saurians

Post by Aethaeryn »

A-Red wrote:It's interesting that in spite of their strong connection with Drakes in multiplayer, the two races have never appeared together in any of the mainline campaigns.
Probably because the Drakes are rare, and there are no mainline Drake campaigns.

I would assume that there are instances in the Wesnoth world where Saurians tribes within Drake realms are under Drake rule because they make such natural complements to each other. And I would also assume that such places do exist because Saurians and Drakes both like remote places, and because Drakes probably have huge domains due to their high mobility. Of course, it's all assumptions right now - the only certainties through mainline are that Drakes and Saurians do not have to be allies as they have both appeared either alone or with other allies. Maybe I will make a Drake campaign, which will elaborate on the Drake-Saurian relationship a bit, when the new Drake art starts materializing - Drakes are my favorite faction.
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Hulavuta
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Re: Saurians

Post by Hulavuta »

Well, I think the Saurians only appear with the Drakes because making them a standalone faction would be a poor choice considering they only have 2 units, that are healers and scouts. That wouldn't really make them even in a battle against other factions. (Evening the factions was an important part of Multiplayer) Seeing as the Drakes aren't in many mainline campaigns, they probably just put them together.

Or, following the Dragon, they might have allied with the Drakes because they are dragon descendants.
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appleide
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Re: Saurians

Post by appleide »

And dragons are just giant flying fire breathing lizards; i.e descending from lizards.
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Skrim
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Re: Saurians

Post by Skrim »

Strangely enough, the lawful, peaceful Drakes have never associated themselves with the chaotic Dragons in the mainline campaigns.

In TRoW, the Drakes lived far off the Great Continent on a slowly-sinking atoll somewhere between Green Isle and the Great Continent. It is not known where they went afterward when the atoll sunk further, though LoW and THoT suggest that Drakes also live in the far northern Heart Mountains(which sounds reasonable).

The Dragon in TRoW had lots of Saurians as his minions, and no mention of Drakes whatsoever. The Dragon in SoF had a [censored] of Bats as his minions, which is even stranger.
Hulavuta wrote:Well, I think the Saurians only appear with the Drakes because making them a standalone faction would be a poor choice considering they only have 2 units, that are healers and scouts. That wouldn't really make them even in a battle against other factions. (Evening the factions was an important part of Multiplayer) Seeing as the Drakes aren't in many mainline campaigns, they probably just put them together.

Or, following the Dragon, they might have allied with the Drakes because they are dragon descendants.
It is obvious that "races" are different from "factions". No race has enough units and enough balance to make a faction in itself. The Elves have only 4 units, the Drakes have 4, the Dwarves have 5, the Orcs/Goblins have 5, even the Humans of Wesnoth have only 7. That would mean none of these races has any meaningful water capability, and would make wildly unbalanced factions. Smaller races have it even worse. The Mermen(who would rule in the water and suck outside of it) have 3, the HODORians have 3, the Saurians have 2, and the Ogres, Trolls, Woses and Nagas have only one unit in their race.

So, ending this tangent, a faction would be a mostly-balanced amalgamation of units from a few races, with lore correlation being a secondary consideration and gameplay the first.

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Araja
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Re: Saurians

Post by Araja »

Pentarctagon wrote:If you took a lizard that lives in a swamp and put it in a desert, it would probably be dead in less than an hour.
In the same way if you took a human who lives in a village and put it in a castle, it would probably be dead in less than an hour?
thespaceinvader wrote:Clearly, saurians, whilst they tend to live in swamps, are also comfortable in sand - more commonly beaches, but they'll survive and be able to hide just as well in deserts.
Hooray, someone else with my view.
Skrim wrote:the lawful, peaceful Drakes
Extracts from the Drakes description:
Drakes are a relatively warlike race and their society can best be described as cultured martial societies. The core of a drake tribe is a small group of veteran warriors led by a mutually respected - or simply feared- leader who rules the society with an iron fist......
Entry into the ruling elite is possible only through challenging and defeating a superior in single combat, which is the way the hierarchy within the elite itself is established and enforced......
While their warlike nature and sense of territory drives them to defend their territories savagely...

Are you sure about the peaceful?

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Cimeries
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Re: Saurians

Post by Cimeries »

Thanks everyone for the input, I've taken a lot of this into account and have already begun working on the first scenario and some new units.

I thought of dividing the remaining Saurian population into tribes, each has a special thing that sets it apart from others. For example, one lives in caves, another lives in the desert, a third has a special kind of unit that others do not, the fourth is more warlike has perhaps mastered the use of iron or has otherwise acquired it for himself, etc.

I'd like to hear some opinions on this sprite I made for a new unit type. That thing he's holding in his right hand is a net, in case it's not obvious.
And the description, which could probably use some work, so suggestions on how it could be improved are very welcome:
"Saurians hunters are normally tasked with acquiring food for their tribes, but are often sent to war to assist the tribe's warriors. Hunters are equipped with a net with which they hinder their prey, and are quite skilled in spear throwing. Unfortunately, they are not as skilled with their spears from up close."
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thespaceinvader
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Re: Saurians

Post by thespaceinvader »

Fine for a frankenstein, but not mainline quality. We'll get to the saurians when we get to them, and give them a few more units.
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Turuk
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Re: Saurians

Post by Turuk »

Araja wrote:
Skrim wrote: the lawful, peaceful Drakes
Extracts from the Drakes description:
Drakes are a relatively warlike race and their society can best be described as cultured martial societies. The core of a drake tribe is a small group of veteran warriors led by a mutually respected - or simply feared- leader who rules the society with an iron fist......
Entry into the ruling elite is possible only through challenging and defeating a superior in single combat, which is the way the hierarchy within the elite itself is established and enforced......
While their warlike nature and sense of territory drives them to defend their territories savagely...
Are you sure about the peaceful?
I believe he confused their general policy of keeping to themsevles with being peaceful.
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manored
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Re: Saurians

Post by manored »

Araja wrote:
Pentarctagon wrote:If you took a lizard that lives in a swamp and put it in a desert, it would probably be dead in less than an hour.
In the same way if you took a human who lives in a village and put it in a castle, it would probably be dead in less than an hour?
In the coldest city in the world children play in the street in days where an adult from outside would die in less than one hour :)

As far as I know, a desert is pretty much opposite to a swamp, life-wise, so a creature well adapted for life in both sounds unlikely. Off course, saurians can be like humans and use a combination of their culture and their bodies to survive, not just their bodies... or just be ubber lizards :)

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Skrim
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Re: Saurians

Post by Skrim »

Turuk wrote:
Araja wrote: Extracts from the Drakes description:
Drakes are a relatively warlike race and their society can best be described as cultured martial societies. The core of a drake tribe is a small group of veteran warriors led by a mutually respected - or simply feared- leader who rules the society with an iron fist......
Entry into the ruling elite is possible only through challenging and defeating a superior in single combat, which is the way the hierarchy within the elite itself is established and enforced......
While their warlike nature and sense of territory drives them to defend their territories savagely...
Are you sure about the peaceful?
I believe he confused their general policy of keeping to themsevles with being peaceful.
Indeed. The Drakes may fight a lot among themselves, but don't bother about other races unless they are attacked. Every race has different policies.

The Orcs fight among themselves a lot and fight others just as much. The Elves don't fight among themselves, but have been involved in a lot of wars with other races. The Dwarves don't go out of their way to pick a fight and are generally peaceful among themselves, but have a strong animosity against Trolls and Elves. And so on...

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thespaceinvader
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Re: Saurians

Post by thespaceinvader »

I don't think the drakes woudl fight a lot amongst themselves, certainly not to the death, anyway. They're a dying race, they wouldn't be killing each other off. I can see them having honour duels, though - maybe duellin scars could be in fashion, like they were in europe in the 1800s. Hmm, I think I might work that into the portraits =D
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Araja
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Re: Saurians

Post by Araja »

You don't have to kill eachother to be warlike, we could say deathless duels were the heart of drake society.
manored wrote:In the coldest city in the world children play in the street in days where an adult from outside would die in less than one hour

As far as I know, a desert is pretty much opposite to a swamp, life-wise, so a creature well adapted for life in both sounds unlikely. Off course, saurians can be like humans and use a combination of their culture and their bodies to survive, not just their bodies... or just be ubber lizards
So they're not the same saurians...Rather there are differant "cultures", swamp and desert maybe.
Even if they're not the same lizards living in these areas, my point still stands that they Desert Saurian seem to be forgotten about, with everyone focusing on the Swamp Saurian.

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Turuk
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Re: Saurians

Post by Turuk »

Araja wrote:So they're not the same saurians...Rather there are differant "cultures", swamp and desert maybe.
Even if they're not the same lizards living in these areas, my point still stands that they Desert Saurian seem to be forgotten about, with everyone focusing on the Swamp Saurian.
Mainly because there have not yet been any references to Desert Saurians.... ;)
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Re: Saurians

Post by thespaceinvader »

Again. Wesnoth Is Not Earth. Wesnoth's 'lizards' for want of a better word (they're nocturnal, which is rare in reptiles...) CAN live comfortably in both swamp and desert. We have enough 'environment species' in unimaginative UMC without you trying to pigeonhole mainline species into such designations...

To summarise. No 'swamp saurians' and 'desert saurians'. Just saurians, who can survive perfectly well in both environments.
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Skrim
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Re: Saurians

Post by Skrim »

Since when did Saurians live in deserts? Their dodge rate on sand is 60%, but that can be any sand - whether it's a beach or a delta or a desert. It simply means they can move well on sand.

Though, they'd probably be able to survive in a desert if they had to, settling around an oasis.

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