Fastest game type?

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sam_waz_here
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Fastest game type?

Post by sam_waz_here » June 2nd, 2009, 10:11 am

For an agonizingly long time Wesnoth has boiled down to:
1) Start game, someone leaves.
2) Half way through three hour game, someone leaves.
3) A wall of units cover every piece of valuable terrain but must stare eachother down, as moving would mean standing in the grass to be quickly picked off.

The third point is fixed by skirmishers but the first two are still a pain in the arse. So what is the shortest game type where I can where I can finish in half an hour.
(I chose half an hour because getting a bunch of players together for those maps where everyone's leader has a free for all around a tree is difficult.)

There might be something wrong with the search button. I searched "fastest game type" but it decided to ignore the word "game".
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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by thespaceinvader » June 2nd, 2009, 10:24 am

1vs1, small map like Hamlets, you should be able to finish inside half an hour to an hour against a good player. Pick someone you know is reliable though - track me down on IRC, and I'll usually be willing to have a game if i'm not too busy.
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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by Turuk » June 2nd, 2009, 11:52 am

TSI is right, for a long time he and I were playing games every evening and we could play a 1v1 game in 30 minutes usually, an hour at the most. It's all about finding someone who is good enough that they will think and move their units quickly, so that the speed of gameplay is pretty quick, and someone who is reliable enough that they do not leave, as that seems to be the main issue with points 1 and 2.
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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by krotop » June 2nd, 2009, 11:59 am

TSI, Turuk, I love your styleplay :cry:
Don't trust me, I'm just average player.
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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by Ken_Oh » June 2nd, 2009, 12:07 pm

People are always [censored] about luck to the point of numerous "less-luck" mods. When is someone going to make a "faster game" mod?

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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by Turuk » June 2nd, 2009, 12:10 pm

krotop wrote:TSI, Turuk, I love your styleplay
Thanks. :)


sam_waz_here, the best part about this thread is that the people who reply here are usually the people who will not do any of the things that currently cause you problems, so I am sure that tracking any of us down for a game if we are on would probably be a good idea.
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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by ElvenKing » June 2nd, 2009, 2:03 pm

Turuk wrote:TSI is right, for a long time he and I were playing games every evening and we could play a 1v1 game in 30 minutes usually, an hour at the most. It's all about finding someone who is good enough that they will think and move their units quickly, so that the speed of gameplay is pretty quick, and someone who is reliable enough that they do not leave, as that seems to be the main issue with points 1 and 2.
Hmmm, whenever I've had a decent opponent and played well against them, the game has gone well in excess of an hour. Maybe I just play slow.

I can't really help that much with 1 or 2, as I haven't really experienced them in ages. Since I mostly play(when I'm not on wesbreak)ladder 1vs1 and the occasional team game that usually involves good players. And when a player has to leave a team game there has often been an a observer to take their place or the game has been pretty much decided.
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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by Turuk » June 2nd, 2009, 2:08 pm

ElvenKing wrote:Hmmm, whenever I've had a decent opponent and played well against them, the game has gone well in excess of an hour. Maybe I just play slow.
I guess that's a good point too, if you are too evenly matched then it might work towards a stalemate, but it would also correspond with how defensively the players use their units. If both sit back and play conservatively, it will take a while. Using the same example, TSI and I both tend to play a bit more offensively and so it's more of a back and forth until one of us gets an overwhelming advantage.
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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by ElvenKing » June 2nd, 2009, 2:33 pm

Heh, I would of thought having lots of back and forth would make the game last just as long, as neither of you would gain an advantage.

Sounds like one of you is taking unnecessary risks at some point. :hmm:

And yes, I think I tend to play a more defensive, at least when I play well. For instance, if I had a slight advantage, I don't think I would risk losing it to gain a great advantage if that move had a fair chance of failing, at least when I am at my best. I prefer to go for the long crush that has less chance of failure.
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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by Turuk » June 2nd, 2009, 2:49 pm

ElvenKing wrote:Sounds like one of you is taking unnecessary risks at some point.
Most likely, we both tended to try gambles that are 50/50, but if they had worked.... ;)

Back to the OP, it also sounds like you are playing games with a large number of players, at least 4, and I do not know if there is way to make those go faster.
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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by ElvenKing » June 2nd, 2009, 2:58 pm

Yeah, you can't really make games with 4 or more players(we won't even discuss the abomination that is 3 players)go really fast. I would never expect a game that was less than an hour. Two hours if the players are somewhat decent. I'd expect even longer if the players were of a high skill level or if more than 4 players are involved.

The only way to bring it down somewhat is to put a timer on, but that can make for a lot of angry players if it is set low enough to actually make the game last for somewhere close to the desired time.
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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by ancestral » June 2nd, 2009, 3:07 pm

Simultaneous turns. *drool*

Especially in co-op games.
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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by Darkaros » June 2nd, 2009, 3:27 pm

The fastest game type would be to arrange for you and your opponents to spam only a single unit, and see the end result. Horsemen VS Dark Adepts VS Dwarf Ulfzerkers VS Saurian Skirmishers would end pretty quickly... Though, not for the reason you might want, in hindsight. :P

Of course, all games are usually quickened with a turn time limit, surprisingly. And you can always turn off animation/speed game up to X16 for fun. if it's allowed in multiplayer.

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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by Caphriel » June 2nd, 2009, 4:57 pm

What game types are you playing? 1v1? 2v2? Survival scenarios? Random factions or picked factions? Are you playing with the default settings, or 500 gold and +10 income per player? These things will affect the game length. Survival scenarios tend to last a long time, and adding gold and income will extend the game and make those long lines of units staring each other down much more likely. If you're playing with random factions, people who leave at the beginning may have come up with a faction they don't want to play. It's unpleasant, but some people want the advantage of being random without the annoyance of having to play whatever faction they roll up.

Setting a reasonable time limit is probably the best way to keep the game from dragging on for too long. To keep things moving, set the reservoir lower and the action bonus higher. This forces players to actually do things rather than sitting and thinking for a long time, but players who play fairly quickly normally probably won't even notice it. I actually use the ladder settings (270/270 200/20) for timed games, and I've never had a problem with people complaining about the timer.

In a 1v1 or 2v2 (and probably in survival scenarios and any other kind of scenario), people tend to leave when they're losing. This certainly takes away some of the joy for the winner of mopping the floor with the losers and seeing the victory screen, but playing a lost game out to its conclusion isn't much fun. Expecting players to stick it out in an untenable position until you kill their leader(s) might be unreasonable. On the other hand, if one player or team has clearly won, but the opposition refuses to concede and instead is playing with delaying tactics that will draw the game out for a long time, a winner might leave. Under these circumstances, simply consider the game over quicker than you expected, and start a new one :)

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Re: Fastest game type?

Post by Kalajel » June 2nd, 2009, 11:29 pm

Yeah, quitters has always been a big problem. But you need to differentiate between real quitters and people with crappy, unpredictable internet connections (those thend to get back in the game rather quickly).

My best solution here would be to make up your list of dependable players and quitters; you want to play with those fromn column A while avoid those from column B like the plague. Make games with passwords. By contacting your dependable players before hand via PM, e-mail, or MSN, you can give 'em your password, thus assuring yourself that only dependable players will join in…

Finally check the lobby chat; more than once I've seen people warning us not to play with "X member" because he's a quitter/bans people from his games when he loses/etc…

As for the wall problem; try to pit your strongest units vs. his weakest unit, reshuffle your line if you need to. Also keep fast and strong units behind your lines wheere your enemy won't see them and where they'll be able to rush in to gap any breach in your line or flood through any breach in your opponent's line. You should puch a hole in his defense despite your unfavorable terrain, and after that, your units should be able to flood throught and this should pretty much be the end of it by then… :wink:

Anyhow, just my 2 cents, hop this helps…

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