playing Wesnoth for real money

[dfTruF]

Hi,

Is there any possibility to play Wesnoth for real money?

For example:
I and my opponent send money (equal stakes in specific currency) to third person (observator of the prearranged game). Money would be delivered via paypal or moneybookers. Observator-banker must watch the game and send money to the winner after battle (he get some commission, for example 3% from single stake). Reputation of the banker depends on his honesty, so there must be some place where players can exchange informations about honesty of observators and their commissions.


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[thespaceinvader]

Not officially, and there almost certainly never will be in any official capacity. It would require Wesnoth to act in a capacity which has legal implications i don't even have a clue about, and which would almost certainly vary depending on the country the user(s) concerned are based in. Plus, there just isn't the demand. This is the first time in nearly 2 years on the project I've seen this come up. You're welcome to do whatever you want to on your own, though.

Sorry I couldn't be more help

[Baufo]

What would stop you from playing Wesnoth for money? If you wanted a place to discuss the honesty of the people involved you could just setup some forum somewhere.

[Dave]

It'd encourage cheating, and we haven't engineered the game to be that secure against cheating...

[joshudson]

I think the game is secure against cheating well enough that an observer watching could catch almost everything other than fog hacks.

[Dave]

I think the game is secure against cheating well enough that an observer watching could catch almost everything other than fog hacks.

Not random number manipulation if it was done well.

[TheChosenOne]

Won't it send an OOS message to the cheated player, if the cheater attempts to cheat by manipulating the numbers?
It could then be declared a draw, and a rematch would be in order.

[Dave]

Won't it send an OOS message to the cheated player, if the cheater attempts to cheat by manipulating the numbers?

Not if someone modifies the source code to their game to send fake random numbers, no.

[silene]

Not random number manipulation if it was done well.

And to stress Dave's point, you don't even need to tinker with random numbers. That is, an observer (which would know your system, since RNG implementation are system-dependent) could guarantee that you have not modified the random number generation: the current game flow would happen no differently on any other computer.

As a player, you just need to know the outcome of fights. For instance, knowing that you are about to miss your next five hits, you can sacrifice them on a non-critical place of the battleground. And if you know you will be lucky, you can get rid of this enemy unit that has been annoying you to no end.

And in case you wonder, a crude hack that would change the attack outcome prediction box to display the precise result of the fight instead of probabilities is a 10-line change. I wouldn't be surprised if some people out there have such a modified dialog box.

[Velensk]

We can't stop you from wagering, however we can not encourage it.

[Baufo]

I think the game is secure against cheating well enough that an observer watching could catch almost everything other than fog hacks.

Actually, map/wall hacks can usually be discovered quite easily by an observer.

[Max]

And to stress Dave's point, you don't even need to tinker with random numbers. That is, an observer (which would know your system, since RNG implementation are system-dependent) could guarantee that you have not modified the random number generation: the current game flow would happen no differently on any other computer.

what exactly is system-dependent in regards to how wesnoth generates random numbers?
the initial seed is shared and the RNG algorithm used is deterministic - how could this allow you to "tinker with random numbers"

[Gambit]

And in case you wonder, a crude hack that would change the attack outcome prediction box to display the precise result of the fight instead of probabilities is a 10-line change. I wouldn't be surprised if some people out there have such a modified dialog box.

thats just down right dirty...

If we were to expand on the OP's idea, It'd be cool if someone organized a Wes-Con. It'd be tough, us being interntional and all, but it would be sweet.

[silene]

the initial seed is shared and the RNG algorithm used is deterministic - how could this allow you to "tinker with random numbers"

Not sure how you got this idea, but it is completely wrong.

When attacking, there is no seed, and the RNG algorithm is the system one (the rand function). In other words, the attacker asks the system for some numbers, performs the fight, then sends the generated numbers to the defender, who replays the fight with the numbers provided by the attacker. So it is quite easy to cheat when you are the attacker, just send random numbers that benefit you.

Below is the actual Wesnoth code. When you are the attacker, random_ is null and you call the system RNG. When you are the defender, random_ is a WML object sent by the attacker and it contains a "[random]" tag with "value" children.

Code: Select all

int rng::get_random() {
	if (!random_) return rand() & 0x7FFFFFFF;
	const config::child_list random(random_->get_children("random"));
	...
	return lexical_cast_default<int>((*random[random_child_++])["value"], 0);
}

[dfTruF]

Won't it send an OOS message to the cheated player, if the cheater attempts to cheat by manipulating the numbers?

Not if someone modifies the source code to their game to send fake random numbers, no.

But this is possibility to implement option for multiplayer game that makes core mechanism (random numbers generator, units and terrains characteristics) in official secured server. Then players use only client program which take and send all critical numbers from secured server through ssl protocol.

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