playing Wesnoth for real money

General feedback and discussion of the game.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

dfTruF
Posts: 15
Joined: February 11th, 2009, 2:17 pm

playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by dfTruF »

Hi,

Is there any possibility to play Wesnoth for real money?

For example:
I and my opponent send money (equal stakes in specific currency) to third person (observator of the prearranged game). Money would be delivered via paypal or moneybookers. Observator-banker must watch the game and send money to the winner after battle (he get some commission, for example 3% from single stake). Reputation of the banker depends on his honesty, so there must be some place where players can exchange informations about honesty of observators and their commissions.


+ +
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by thespaceinvader »

Not officially, and there almost certainly never will be in any official capacity. It would require Wesnoth to act in a capacity which has legal implications i don't even have a clue about, and which would almost certainly vary depending on the country the user(s) concerned are based in. Plus, there just isn't the demand. This is the first time in nearly 2 years on the project I've seen this come up. You're welcome to do whatever you want to on your own, though.

Sorry I couldn't be more help :)
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
User avatar
Baufo
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1115
Joined: January 29th, 2006, 4:53 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by Baufo »

What would stop you from playing Wesnoth for money? If you wanted a place to discuss the honesty of the people involved you could just setup some forum somewhere.
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde
Dave
Founding Developer
Posts: 7071
Joined: August 17th, 2003, 5:07 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by Dave »

It'd encourage cheating, and we haven't engineered the game to be that secure against cheating...
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
joshudson
Posts: 501
Joined: January 17th, 2006, 8:04 pm
Contact:

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by joshudson »

I think the game is secure against cheating well enough that an observer watching could catch almost everything other than fog hacks.
CHKDSK has repaired bad sectors in CHKDSK.EXE
Dave
Founding Developer
Posts: 7071
Joined: August 17th, 2003, 5:07 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by Dave »

joshudson wrote:I think the game is secure against cheating well enough that an observer watching could catch almost everything other than fog hacks.
Not random number manipulation if it was done well.
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
User avatar
TheChosenOne
Posts: 245
Joined: April 7th, 2006, 8:26 am
Location: Royal Palace, Weldyn St. 01, Wesnoth 123 456

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by TheChosenOne »

Won't it send an OOS message to the cheated player, if the cheater attempts to cheat by manipulating the numbers?
It could then be declared a draw, and a rematch would be in order.
Numbers do not win a battle
---Konrad III
(A loyal member of the pro-loyalists)

Would you like to translate the Battle of Wesnoth into Indonesian? Then come and join us at http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/IndonesianTranslation
Dave
Founding Developer
Posts: 7071
Joined: August 17th, 2003, 5:07 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by Dave »

TheChosenOne wrote:Won't it send an OOS message to the cheated player, if the cheater attempts to cheat by manipulating the numbers?
Not if someone modifies the source code to their game to send fake random numbers, no.
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
silene
Posts: 1109
Joined: August 28th, 2004, 10:02 pm

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by silene »

Dave wrote:Not random number manipulation if it was done well.
And to stress Dave's point, you don't even need to tinker with random numbers. That is, an observer (which would know your system, since RNG implementation are system-dependent) could guarantee that you have not modified the random number generation: the current game flow would happen no differently on any other computer.

As a player, you just need to know the outcome of fights. For instance, knowing that you are about to miss your next five hits, you can sacrifice them on a non-critical place of the battleground. And if you know you will be lucky, you can get rid of this enemy unit that has been annoying you to no end.

And in case you wonder, a crude hack that would change the attack outcome prediction box to display the precise result of the fight instead of probabilities is a 10-line change. I wouldn't be surprised if some people out there have such a modified dialog box.
Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3991
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by Velensk »

We can't stop you from wagering, however we can not encourage it.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."
User avatar
Baufo
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1115
Joined: January 29th, 2006, 4:53 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by Baufo »

joshudson wrote:I think the game is secure against cheating well enough that an observer watching could catch almost everything other than fog hacks.
Actually, map/wall hacks can usually be discovered quite easily by an observer.
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde
Max
Posts: 1449
Joined: April 13th, 2008, 12:41 am

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by Max »

silene wrote:And to stress Dave's point, you don't even need to tinker with random numbers. That is, an observer (which would know your system, since RNG implementation are system-dependent) could guarantee that you have not modified the random number generation: the current game flow would happen no differently on any other computer.
what exactly is system-dependent in regards to how wesnoth generates random numbers?
the initial seed is shared and the RNG algorithm used is deterministic - how could this allow you to "tinker with random numbers"
User avatar
Gambit
Loose Screw
Posts: 3266
Joined: August 13th, 2008, 3:00 pm
Location: Dynamica
Contact:

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by Gambit »

silene wrote: And in case you wonder, a crude hack that would change the attack outcome prediction box to display the precise result of the fight instead of probabilities is a 10-line change. I wouldn't be surprised if some people out there have such a modified dialog box.
:shock: thats just down right dirty...

If we were to expand on the OP's idea, It'd be cool if someone organized a Wes-Con. It'd be tough, us being interntional and all, but it would be sweet.
silene
Posts: 1109
Joined: August 28th, 2004, 10:02 pm

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by silene »

Max2008 wrote:the initial seed is shared and the RNG algorithm used is deterministic - how could this allow you to "tinker with random numbers"
Not sure how you got this idea, but it is completely wrong.

When attacking, there is no seed, and the RNG algorithm is the system one (the rand function). In other words, the attacker asks the system for some numbers, performs the fight, then sends the generated numbers to the defender, who replays the fight with the numbers provided by the attacker. So it is quite easy to cheat when you are the attacker, just send random numbers that benefit you.

Below is the actual Wesnoth code. When you are the attacker, random_ is null and you call the system RNG. When you are the defender, random_ is a WML object sent by the attacker and it contains a "[random]" tag with "value" children.

Code: Select all

int rng::get_random() {
	if (!random_) return rand() & 0x7FFFFFFF;
	const config::child_list random(random_->get_children("random"));
	...
	return lexical_cast_default<int>((*random[random_child_++])["value"], 0);
}
dfTruF
Posts: 15
Joined: February 11th, 2009, 2:17 pm

Re: playing Wesnoth for real money

Post by dfTruF »

Dave wrote:
TheChosenOne wrote:Won't it send an OOS message to the cheated player, if the cheater attempts to cheat by manipulating the numbers?
Not if someone modifies the source code to their game to send fake random numbers, no.

But this is possibility to implement option for multiplayer game that makes core mechanism (random numbers generator, units and terrains characteristics) in official secured server. Then players use only client program which take and send all critical numbers from secured server through ssl protocol.

+ +
Post Reply