Concealed Units

[ninjarealist]

Why does it seem like the computer always knows exactly where my invisible units are? I was trying to kill a mage with some wraiths and the mage immediately zeroed in on them and killed my units. Aren't they supposed to be invisible?

[Velensk]

Wraiths arn't invisable.
Shadows are only invisable at night.

[ninjarealist]

Yes shadows, I meant to say shadows, and it was at night. It was the mission in DiD where you have to get Malin and Darken Volk into the caves. And I've had it happen with other units. Fugitives on towns getting zeroed in on when there are no other units anywhere close.

[Ken_Oh]

This comes up periodically, but no one has ever given proof that AI can see hidden units. I know in Wesnoth 1.2.x, the AI was completely dumb to hidden units because I once had a bunch of Elvish Rangers at the edge of a forest ready to pounce on a leader and that leader sent all of his units to another part of a map.

It just seems that the AI just good at guessing where the unit may be. I mean, if a unit can hide in villages and then suddenly disappears, should it be so hard to guess that it might be in the one village for 10 hexes?

If this isn't the case, if the AI really is cheating, then I encourage you to find proof by providing replays.

[CountPenguin]

I don't know about the shadow thing, but it would make sense that they'd find the fugitives, because they're going to try to get more villages.

[Joram]

#1- Did you take a village with the Shadows? The AI might notice that it just lost a village, in which case it wouldn't be cheating by guessing there is a unit there.

#2- Are there any fires or lighthouses on that map? And if so, is it possible that they apply illumination? I know that on a few other maps there are props that illuminate hexes that are nearby (up to two or three spaces away). I don't remember any of these, but I haven't played the campaign recently.

#3- Shadows are skirmishers, aren't they? Did you move past any of his units? That would briefly make them uninvisible, meaning that it would be much easier to guess where they are.

#4- Have the undead been sited yet? It is possible that if the guards noticed some of your other units that the mages were "activated", and were moving forward to get closer to your other units. Then, when they were stopped by the Shadows, they could go no further, so just attacked your ghosts. This recalculation would happen so fast in the computer that it would give the illusion of having purposed to attack your invisible unit (I believe that I have had this happen to me a couple of times).

If it is not one of the above things, I don't know what it could be.

As far as fugitives, since they are only invisible on one hex, the computer will see them move there and not move off, so can guess where they are pretty easily. Then again, an AI unit moving to capture the village will be forced to stop and attack the fugitive anyway.

[Turuk]

The AI cannot see hidden units, so it would make sense that it is one of the reasons that the other users have provided.

[randomdragoon]

Concealment is really useless as a way to keep a unit alive -- theoretically a player can turn shroud updates off and then keep undoing his move until he finds the concealed unit, if that's what he's really after.

Better used as a trap. The threat of ambushing woses keeps many a gryphon rider from just flying everywhere.

[Caphriel]

You can't undo after being ambushed. Unless... maybe? you triggered the ambush with a skirmisher?
...
/me checks
...
Nope! Even a skirmisher will lose all their MP after being ambushed.

So you could keep poking around if you were looking for a hidden unit, but if you find one, you're stuck with it. Of course, if you're playing with time controls, this may not be the best way to spend your time...

[Gambit]

He means you can keep going and undoing until you find the hidden unit.

Rather ugly tactic I think...

[Caphriel]

I did in fact mention that. I agree, it's a bit of a cheesy tactic, but how could it be prevented? Disabling undo seems like a cure that's worse than the problem.

[ninjarealist]

Concealment is really useless as a way to keep a unit alive -- theoretically a player can turn shroud updates off and then keep undoing his move until he finds the concealed unit, if that's what he's really after.

Better used as a trap. The threat of ambushing woses keeps many a gryphon rider from just flying everywhere.

Yeah but, Shadows have like no survivability, even against loyalist units at night, so you have to sneak them into range so you can get the kill shot, but if you can just keep moving until you run into the unit then that is lame. It really totally takes away any value that unit had. But I understand what you guys are saying about Fugitives. Conceal is a pretty useless skill I guess.

[randomdragoon]

Although, having a unit with both teleport and concealment would be pretty interesting.