Units behind the scenes

[Spookyspider]

Hi, I'm kinda new to these forums and I decided to make a topic!

In this topic I hope to see some discussion about the "forgotten units"
By forgotten units I mean those units which you normally don't recruit as they seem unskilled or lacks damage, hp, etc..
I think every player knows a bad unit from some faction but some people might see that unit as a potential fighter and possibly as one of the best units of that faction.
I know that people recruit those units which are the best for killing your opponents units, so that makes the ways of recruiting change. But I'm talking about in general, if you don't know your opponent, which you consider the weakest unit of your faction? Think twice why that special unit is so weak

I'll start with a Footpad. Most consider them as an easy target and even useless. So most of the people will recruit dwarf fighters and thunderers, ulfs, etc.
Footpad has a poor ranged and close ranged damage, though they make damage vs. skeletons well, but footpad is IMO one of the best units of Knalgans. They are fast, so they make you earn money faster, and they really hold villages, with 70%, even better than dwarf fighters as they can also throw some rocks Footpads have the "dodging ability" which makes them hard to kill and it takes at least one turn for your opponent to kill it. BUT at that time, your dwarfes has reached your footpad and also your opponents units, which makes them to flee or die, if lucky of course. And if you get your footpad level up, which is easy by giving him the last hits, it makes your opponents hand shake at night time.

So in conclusion Footpads are:

-Cheap
-Fast
-They consume your opponents time
-Good at holding some areas, such as woods, as dwarfes have a poor defence there
-Maybe a key to the victory, even if you recruit only one!

So, share your thoughts. Which unit you think is behind the scenes or not respected as much as it should be?

Thanks. Hope you all understood the idea of this topic

[michchar]

Well, actually, most (experienced, at least) people know that footpads are incredibly versatile, but new players would probably think they are useless.
Anyways, some new people would think orcish grunts are less powerful than, say, the elvish fighter, (well, at least judging by the number of posts complaining about the orcish grunt) but the orcish grunt is actually pretty good if you consider the cost and the hitpoints

[Velensk]

I realy don't think that either of those are behind the scene units. As the above mentioned, experianced players know how usefull footpads are. Orcish grunts are probably the most commonly recruited orc unit out there.

[Spookyspider]

Velensk is probably right. Or not.
What do you guys think about walking corpses or that kind of units?

[TheGreatRings]

Walking corpses are for when you're too poor to afford a real army (the exception is very large maps where you can build up an obscene number of them before your enemy arrives, and Age of Legends for the same reasons. Ok in vast numbers, but otherwise useless).

One that I think may be a bit under-rated is the shamen. I hardly ever see them recruited in campaigns, probably because of the low damage, but I use them a great deal.

[thespaceinvader]

Wait, what? Shamans are eminently useful, particularly in longer campaigns. There's little better than romping around the map with a huge army of shydes and sylphs mauling the opposition.

[michchar]

@ Valensk: Sorry if I was a little unclear, but I meant that new players think that orcish grunts are underpowered. In my opinion, they are incredibly useful


Anyways, every unit in this game is pretty much balanced, so there are no real units "behind the scenes," as every unit serves its purpose the way it is supposed to

[Turuk]

I also just want to throw in that each user has their own particularly play style and uses certain units in conjunction well against other players based on how they know the other will respond. TSI and I play against each other quite a bit, and we quickly had to think of different strategies or interesting responses as we think in similar fashions and find ourselves grinding and dragging the games out.

I would suggest watching a few games on the MP server between some more experienced players (if you can tell) in order to watch how various units are used across each faction.

[Spookyspider]

Not a bad idea there Turuk =)

I would say that I am kinda unexperienced in vs. other players.

michchar, you are right about that every unit is balanced , but we are trying to negotiate here about what you usually don't recruit when playing certain faction.
Thanks for pointing out that fact though

[JW]

One that I think may be a bit under-rated is the shamen. I hardly ever see them recruited in campaigns, probably because of the low damage, but I use them a great deal.

Who else are you watching play SP campaigns, and how?

[Turuk]

One that I think may be a bit under-rated is the shamen. I hardly ever see them recruited in campaigns, probably because of the low damage, but I use them a great deal.

Who else are you watching play SP campaigns, and how?

Also, I don't know about that statement either, as shamans in campaigns as healers are probably one of the most useful units to recruit....

I assume you mean MP campaigns and/or multiplayer games in general?

[Wintermute]

One that I think may be a bit under-rated is the shamen. I hardly ever see them recruited in campaigns, probably because of the low damage, but I use them a great deal.

Who else are you watching play SP campaigns, and how?

/me imagines Wesnoth TV

[dlp]

Speaking as a beginner who's only worked all the way thru TSG once and is still experimenting with it (for what little that's worth): I recognized the value of Shamen quickly, once I tried one. For one thing, healers of any type are especially useful units. Furthermore, used carefully, Shamen can do some damage, survive modest attacks, and get promoted rather easily, at which point they become very good. I've seen reference somewhere to a strategy that involves recruiting them in large numbers and grouping them so they heal one another, which sounds intriguing, but I haven't tried it.

Peasants, on the other hand, seem mostly useless. I recruit 2 or 3 on turn 1 of the 1st TSG scenario and send them to grab villages. Later, if I can get them into a fight, I use them as sacrifices to draw off attacks from the AI and thereby protect units I care about. I haven't recruited any past turn 1, though, or -- typically -- recalled survivors. (On the "hard" difficulty, there's a loyal peasant, so he's worth keeping and promoting.) By turn 2, I have an adequate number of good recalls and can afford L1 recruits that serve the sacrifice role better, if necessary.

Mermen haven't proven to be very useful in TSG, either, even in scenario 1 where they're introduced. Water/swamp doesn't seem to play an important role in the TSG scenarios and they move too slowly and get killed too easily on land. (In fact, they get killed almost automatically even if they're used to defend the water around the River Fort -- the AI swarms them.) I've abandoned recalling the loyals that appear in scenario 1 or recruiting any and am uncertain why the designers chose to introduce them.

[Daedal]

Mermen haven't proven to be very useful in TSG, either, even in scenario 1 where they're introduced. Water/swamp doesn't seem to play an important role in the TSG scenarios and they move too slowly and get killed too easily on land. (In fact, they get killed almost automatically even if they're used to defend the water around the River Fort -- the AI swarms them.) I've abandoned recalling the loyals that appear in scenario 1 or recruiting any and am uncertain why the designers chose to introduce them.

Actually, I find mermen to be pretty good for harassing units that lag behind the main enemy force and have to cross a body of water. 2 or 3 units who could have joined the fight now slug it out in the river instead. This means fewer casualties for my main force. Regarding TSG, there are a few other scenarios in that campaign where you can pull this off.

[mcv]

I'm a beginner, but have never missed the usefulness of Footpads. They're very fast (which is easier to recognise and qualify than the amount of damage they do), and while their damage isn't great, they have both melee and ranged attacks. And they're impact, which makes them more useful against undead than elvish fighters and archers.

I took longer for me to see the value in thugs. They're very slow, and just didn't seem all that great. But their damage is pretty good, and more importantly: they upgrade to Bandits, which have a lot of HP for a level 2 unit. I love using them to protect more vulnerable units.

Shamen might seem small and weak to a beginner who didn't take a good look at their stats and their upgrade paths, but even just their "slow" power makes them extremely useful.