Disgruntled user's feedback.

[Mipe]

Hello,
I just registered to post this feedback - heck, I even had to fight the captcha nonsense (you sadistic freaks you). If you don't like negative feedback, quickly navigate away.

There.

I've already played Wesnoth before - around version 1.4 or so - enjoyed the campaigns etc., finished one, the game was fun. However, the more I played, the more I found myself annoyed. So, yeah, I took a break - and then, oh look, version 1.6 is released! Let's see if it has improved.

Noipe.

So, what is so annoying?

A couple things.

Firstly, the AI. It is way too slow; often I would have to wait 5 minutes between each AI's turns. I would watch the screen and tap the table impatiently as the AI ponders next move. Often it takes 1 minute BETWEEN units. It may be my system - 2.4GHz Celeron, 1.5 GB RAM. Still, the delay, although anticipated in turn based strategy games, is highly irritating. Even I don't take that long to make my turns!

Secondly, the randomness. We all know how annoying it was to lose a tank to a spearman in Civilization, however is it really necessary to bring the same concept to Wesnoth - even if limited? Watching the unit and holding my breath, rooting for it to survive the onslaught or manage to finish a powerful enemy off within the turn - no dice, sugar, for there is Murphy. He doesn't like it when you're enjoying the game too much. 4 units all missing the enemy unit on low defense terrain... uh, sure. Where is the strategy? Tactics? I've just wasted 4 units' actions on a single unit that is on the good book with dice gods. This is more like a game of Poker than strategy.

That is it. I don't have the patience anymore to struggle with long campaigns - at least not without a good book to read during enemy turns.

Hopefully you will take this feedback to heart and look into how to make Wesnoth more nerve friendly.

Mipe off.

[voris]

Clearly you missed the DIY luck thread post. Could have saved you some time on point #2.

[grzywacz]

Regarding the alleged slowness of AI, if I were you I'd go ahead and check my computer for malware and similar CPU hogs. Wesnoth works way faster than you report indicates on a 200MHz ARM CPU.

[Wintermute]

With regard to your slow performance, have you turned off animations? used accelerated speed? skipped AI moves? done other things to improve the performance of the game?

In terms of this:

This is more like a game of Poker than strategy.

That is just funny. Poker has MANY books written about it, and is studied quite rigorously in some circles. Wikipedia has a separate article just for the strategy: "Poker strategy is a complex subject. This article only attempts to introduce basic strategy concepts."

Thanks for the feedback, perhaps Wesnoth is not the game for you. Try "Massive Assault Network 2" if you want a less probabilistic strategy game, it's pretty good.

[Radament]

... no dice, sugar, for there is Murphy. He doesn't like it when you're enjoying the game too much. 4 units all missing the enemy unit on low defense terrain... uh, sure. Where is the strategy? Tactics? I've just wasted 4 units' actions on a single unit that is on the good book with dice gods. This is more like a game of Poker than strategy.

Why do people never mention that sometimes your unit survives 3 attacks with 2hp and levels? There is incessant whining about when the dice gods screw you. Fact is that some things are not under your control, and adjusting / surviving is the sole tactic and strategy. Thats a perfect simulation of real life & war, IMO.

BtW, Murphy's real name is selective perception.

[MDG]

Well I hope you are not going to be a hypocrite about this and can take some very blunt, negative feedback yourself.

Let's see if it has improved.

Noipe.

Liar.

This game is put together by volunteers bringing their hard won skills and experience to bear on their own personal time and then releasing it to all and sundry for free. Above, you just delivered a stunning, very ill-mannered and extremely obnoxious insult to every single mainline developer and contributor who has worked on the game between 1.4 and 1.6. What about the new music, the new sprite art, terrain art, portrait art, more finely tuned balance and gameplay in both multi player and single player, additional translations, game engine improvements (if they weren't what you wanted, then why don't you get involved yourself?). There have been massive improvements in loads of areas. To neglect to acknowledge those in order to indulge in your own childish, emotional, spoiled brat, little princess, pre-madonna, temper tantrum, is deeply offensive regards all the hard work done by (very talented) complete strangers. I hope those that arrived just before 1.4 and have stayed on since (like Kitty and TSI to name just two) along with those that have arrived since (like LordBob, DUHH, and plenty more) ignore this garbage you've just vomited up on the forum.

Troll.

@Moderator's: Lock?

[JW]

Trolling is bad, and although flames kill trolls, they are not the appropriate response on a forum.

[hiro hito]

Why do people never mention that sometimes your unit survives 3 attacks with 2hp and levels? There is incessant whining about when the dice gods screw you.

As a long time luck complainer, I must say that speaking about luck in general force you to take part for luck or unluck.... If you don't want to repeat yourself, you just expose one (on two) exemple...

It's simplier to give exemple when everything is bad, I am agree about that....

But I think that many of us don't ask ourself why they win.... Are you say to yourself: "yes, I win, so the game is perfect so everything is perfect....". That is the problem I think, because "luck" is sly....

I must say that I often think of my victories, especially against good players, and as I am not a bad player (neither a top one) I often conclue that my victories were due to "good" luck... And I must say that many games between 2 good players show how luck is far more important than strategy.... and it's regrettable...

[Lancer]

Trolling is bad, and although flames kill trolls, they are not the appropriate response on a forum.

Lances are much more effective then flames on trolls.
There's nothing more satisfying then sticking a troll head to the sharp point of a lance,
to scare away all other trolls when charging.

But seriously though, I agree with MDG.
Mipe, your first issue has nothing to do with Wesnoth itself, but probably your computer.
Your second issue has already been discussed a zillion times,
and if this is the only reason you think 1.6 hasn't been improved enough,
then you must be either willfully ignorant, or plain dumb.

And thus the troll falls slowly on his knees, realizing he was wrong.
Finally he collapses and the humans begin to celebrate another death of a troll

[Mipe]

Let me say that I am running WoW without any hitches. Clearly it is not my poor CPU's fault the enemy AI is taking minutes between each unit (on larger maps). Otherwise it would have been much more enjoyable, I'd even forgive the 'random' factor.

And yes, animations are off, no enemy movement etc., so I can just stare at the still screen while waiting for the AI to wake up and move each unit. Painful on large maps. So, indeed, this game is not for me; I am easily annoyed when my time is wasted needlessly. I shall be placing Wesnoth onto the shelf along with Civilization 4 and other games with horrid delays between turns.

Way to kill this user's experience, folks.

As for the flame-spitting hyenas here, I have warned you; don't like negative feedback, skip this thread. This is for the attention of developers, so that they would possibly look into the AI routines and optimize them to shorten delays between turns. Pathfinding algorithms, iterations etc. to make gameplay on larger maps with large number of enemies smoother.

I am off to play some RTS and [censored] about the needless amount of micromanagement. As for you flame-spitting hyenas, learn not to irritate already irritated individuals. While I already have given an annoying image, you are ruining the image of a community as a whole yourselves. Clearly Wesnoth is not that hostile, even if I am.

That is all. Now you go play some hardcore maps, I'll see if I can bag some more aliens (and possibly civilians) in UFO:AI with my tactical skills RATHER THAN PURE LUCK.

MDG: I was referring to delays between AI turns. I won't take offense from your ad hominem, however, since you obviously don't know what you are talking about. 1.4 to 1.6: AI still takes long minutes between each turn on larger maps. My computer? Oh, of course, the classic bigot company excuse; except that my computer runs other games without any problems (WoW, UFO:AI etc.)

I appreciate effort the developers put into the game. I do not appreciate that some issues still aren't fixed, however. As such, Wesnoth remains on the shelf of games that have lost their appeal by taking away from the enjoyment.

[thespaceinvader]

There's a major project beginning at present (as I understand it, taking advantage of Google Summer of Code) to significantly improve the AI's intelligence and tactical capabilities. Hopefully, this should speed it up, too. but don't be surprised when it's slow on big maps. It has a lot of units to move (and it considers each and every possible move each and every one of those units can make, i think), and a LOT of calculations to make. It's not instant.

Beyond that, the luck thing's been done. And done. And done. Look up any number of older threads to sdee the discussions.

Leave it be.

[zookeeper]

Locked.

Oh, and here's my take on the whole thread: