Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

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5dPZ
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Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by 5dPZ »

1. Unit spam
Noob: spam fancy units, often cool/expensive ones: ulf, burner, mage, wose etc and get pwned within a few rounds.
Mid-level: buy a unit of each kind (you will lose if your units are of one type, you know?)
Pro: spam cheap efficient unit: grunt, spearman, fighters of all kinds, outlaws etc. Assisted with some utility units, use time of day, terran etc to punish enemy even when they try to recruit counters that are more expensive.

2. Time of day
Noob: lawful fight chaotic during night and vice versa -- get pwned within a few rounds
Mid-level: follow the ToD rule so tightly (wow! i learned how it works!) that no matter how adventage his position is in, he will retreat at unfavored time -- weakened foe got time to recover and turning the table.
Pro: lawful fight chaotic during night and vice versa, but this time only when precisely planned so that a huge proportion of enemy is dead at first charge and rest can't really fight back effectively. Then when your favorable time comes, the game is decided.

3. Use of Terran
Noob: going all in for the kill, what does the number on terran mean? -- got pwned in a few round.
Mid-level: follow terran SO closely that elf never go out of forest and dwarf can only walk in hills/mountains (if you go out there, you die!). -- conserved play that could miss some effective offense and less effective defence since good terran sometimes doesn't completely ZOC all units.
Pro: Can put all units on plain/water is time/situation is right. not considering own units' defence, but enemy defence as well if enemy went on offensive. ZOC units on weak terran etc.

4. Villlage occupation
Noob: doesn't know to grab/protect village, leave village completely vurnerable to steal -- out financed after a few turns.
Mid-level: always put units in village - "if I lose villages, i lose the game!"
Pro: Give up villages at right time to minimize loss. Leave empty village to enemy as a trap etc

5. Single unit charge
Noob: grab deep enemy village when they can, only to let their fast units die next turn.
Mid-level: never risk any units. (if you steal that village, you lose your unit!)
Pro: grab enemy village, or block retreat path at the right moment, so that even enemy kill the suicider, their loss will be greater the coming turn because that suicider lured enemy army on bad terran and/or weakened them during retaliation.

6. Team work
Noob: No communication, suiciding everything and ask teammate for help.
Mid-level: discuss every move and strategy.
Pro: little strategy discussion, since they can guess what other teammate is planning/thinking. Most chat is offtopic and for entertaining purposes.

Maybe more to come, you are welcome to post yours :twisted:

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lamperouge
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by lamperouge »

7. Use of Leader
noob- after recruiting, sends the leader out with his army and keeps him in the fight for the rest of the game.. and probably winds up ZoCing incorrectly and loses him within a few turns "Hey, I have this leader, why not use him??"

mid-level: always (or mostly always) keep leader in keep, after all, leader faces certain death out there and cannot recruit!

pro: leader stays in the general area around the keep, but is usually a turn or two away from a recruiting hex but also can jump in to help the army if really needed. Of course, he is always well ZoCd

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JW
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by JW »

lamperouge wrote:7. Use of Leader
noob- after recruiting, sends the leader out with his army and keeps him in the fight for the rest of the game.. and probably winds up ZoCing incorrectly and loses him within a few turns "Hey, I have this leader, why not use him??"
I usually see the opposite: leader doesn't move from the spawn hex the entire game.

Nice opening post. :)

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Des
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by Des »

Wow, I read this post and I can honestly say I've gone through all those stages of thinking. It's a bit funny how it changes--even back and forth.

Entertaining read, actually.
Redrock Gulch (Winter 2009 Map Contest Submission)

To rely on rustics and not prepare is the greatest of crimes; to be prepared beforehand for any contingency is the greatest of Virtues. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

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TheMasterOfBattle
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by TheMasterOfBattle »

Indeed, it was very entertaining to read. :)

5dPZ
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by 5dPZ »

I got the idea for this post because I played a lot of 2 vs 2 games. And when sometimes my ally does something really "stupid", I would think "m....that is a move most newbie will do, however, if he followed with this this and that, then that could be a really smart move". However, in >95% case, my ally is a REAL noob and the move often result a loss of our team -- I over-think most of the time :P

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Des
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by Des »

5dPZ, when are you normally on? Maybe we can 2v2 it up sometime.
Redrock Gulch (Winter 2009 Map Contest Submission)

To rely on rustics and not prepare is the greatest of crimes; to be prepared beforehand for any contingency is the greatest of Virtues. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Noy
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by Noy »

5dPZ wrote:
2. Time of day
Noob: lawful fight chaotic during night and vice versa -- get pwned within a few rounds
Mid-level: follow the ToD rule so tightly (wow! i learned how it works!) that no matter how adventage his position is in, he will retreat at unfavored time -- weakened foe got time to recover and turning the table.
Pro: lawful fight chaotic during night and vice versa, but this time only when precisely planned so that a huge proportion of enemy is dead at first charge and rest can't really fight back effectively. Then when your favorable time comes, the game is decided.
Actually I think this one probably shows best who are the experts and the noobs. As the skill level increases the ToD shifts in importance... it accelerates for lack of a better word.

Among elite level games the "potential" matters much much more; you'll see chaotics attack at the afternoon and plan retreats by 1st watch, while loyal players would attack at 2nd watch and retreat by the afternoon. Players wouldn't want to have their units trapped for the opposing ToD onslaught.
I suspect having one foot in the past is the best way to understand the present.

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woodmouse
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by woodmouse »

:cry:
So now I'm declared a noob...
I mean, I do all of those things, depending on the map. But I don't move leader much, only to take the closest villages... But I always keep him near the keep even if I have -999 money and -999 income... But well, I'm such a noob, everyone tells me that... :
But sometimes I almost win and then lose, because I make something REALLY stupid. It's because I don't want others tell me "faster, faster, you a*****!", shich they usually do. That's why I am so noobish... If the other players could be a little more patient, then I wouldn't be a noob. :lol:


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Velensk
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by Velensk »

An intriging post. I think that it kind of demonstrates something that I have heard explained to me for skill in something else.

A person with no skill or experiance will make dumb mistakes all the time.

A person who has a little skill and experiance has learned to follow certain principles that will easily give an edge over those who don't understand those principles

A person who realy knows what he's doing can make judgements about which principles apply to which extent. As a result some of his decisions will go against some of the principles but will ultimatly be to his advantage.

A principle is that you should stay in good terrain. However if you do this A: it would be hard to attack, and B: Conforming your unit formations to the terrain mass could make it very easy to attack you especialy if you are unwilling to retreat as time of day shifts

A principle is that it is important to have a constant stream of reinforcements
Another principle is that having an extra level 2 in the fray can change the flow of battle.
In many cases the first overrides the second as a result the 'medium players' you mentioned will tend to stick by it. However there is a balance and judgement between the two and the second can take precidence.

A principle is that you should run at your enemies time and advance at your own. However the real effect you're trying to avoid is a conflict that gives your enemy the advantage. Oftentimes this means that you should run at your enemies time and advance during yours, but not always.

A principle is that you should mind resitances. This is certainly true, but it dosn't always come out that simple. For example, many of the best players use spearmen and cavalry rather than heavy infantry as their primary melee units against undead. It would seem common sense that you'd want impact warriors over blade and perice when your enemies primary infantry is skelotons. However the balance is that heavy infantry are very slow, and very suceptable to the ranged attack of adepts, and in a match with heavy time of day factor those are a couple things that are hard to afford.
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by Glowing Fish »

8. Faction Choice

Noob: Will insist loudly and often that the game is unbalanced, and that one faction either totally sucks or totally owns over all other factions.
Mid-level: Will pretty much agree with the party line that all factions are balanced and tries to play well with whatever faction they end up with.
Pro: Even though they know that all factions are reasonably balanced, they know that one is more agile and fun for them specifically.
Don't go to Glowing Fish for advice, he will say both yes and no.

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lamperouge
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by lamperouge »

Glowing Fish wrote:8. Faction Choice
tries to play well with whatever faction they end up with.
XD I'm starting to feel bad that I am one of the few people who don't pick random...

Radament
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by Radament »

Some behavioral patterns i've observed:

9. First response when joining a game:

Noob: "go go go gogogo lol!"
Mid-level: "Can you make me random?"
Pro: "Hi."

10. Last response when leaving a game:

Noob: *x has left the game*
Mid-level: "meh. that was pure luck."
Pro: "well played. rematch?"

Oddly, the better players are often more mature and polite.

cmonyiman
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by cmonyiman »

Radament wrote:Some behavioral patterns i've observed:

9. First response when joining a game:

Noob: "go go go gogogo lol!"
Mid-level: "Can you make me random?"
Pro: "Hi."

10. Last response when leaving a game:

Noob: *x has left the game*
Mid-level: "meh. that was pure luck."
Pro: "well played. rematch?"

Oddly, the better players are often more mature and polite.
I only agree with the noob part, the mid and pro are not determined by skill but by character. A "pro" can indeed choose something and then change his mind, and mid-level can as well say "Hi." and not being skilled at all. Same thing for 10., which depends on the match. On a sidenote, usually when leaving a game; both mid and pro-palyer says gg after the match, and again "rematch" and "luck" depends on the game and not on skill.

Radament
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Re: Things that you do when you are too noob OR too pro

Post by Radament »

cmonyiman wrote: I only agree with the noob part, the mid and pro are not determined by skill but by character. A "pro" can indeed choose something and then change his mind, and mid-level can as well say "Hi." and not being skilled at all. Same thing for 10., which depends on the match. On a sidenote, usually when leaving a game; both mid and pro-palyer says gg after the match, and again "rematch" and "luck" depends on the game and not on skill.
I know, people are unpredictable and generalizations shabby, i wrote that tongue in cheek though. Some people don't say a word whilst mopping your castle with your leader. I even heard rumors of people speaking naught but hodor!

11. HODOR
noob: hodor at first glance. no clue of hodor though.
mid-level: knows about hodor.
pro: has witnessed hodor. transcendends hodor. can hodor.

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