I love the RNG!

[Mica]

Honestly, I feel that there are too many people complaining about the RNG (generally newer players) and that it gets little love. I am serious, I love it.

The RNG is one of the key factors in my opinion that keeps this game very interesting. Instead of being able to plan out "I'll kill this unit here and then move this guy over there" and so on, if you try to kill that first unit but fail, now you have to change up your strategy.

Yes, having to change up your strategy is considered a bad thing in many people's eyes. But it's this luck that Wesnoth has that keeps the game more difficult and more enjoyable, because you can't predict everything that is going to happen. An easy game to master is not a fun game in my opinion.

I used to be a cheater. And not just little cheats either. (Not on Wesnoth, but games where cheats were hard-coded in the game). I'm talking games like GTA where I would give myself invincibility, etc. It was shortly after I started cheating that I became bored of everything. It was too easy, and I became very uninterested. So I stopped cheating. Since I stopped, all the games I've played are very enjoyable.

The games where you can easily predict what will happen (not counting what your opponent will do to a point) are not as fun as a game like this. Take the Final Fantasy RPG series. It's an incredibly fun game and it has an RNG. It's not "as severe" as Wesnoth's, but it doesn't really require it. A 4 on 4 battle has less need for luck than a 10+ on 10+ battle would. But it's that RNG Final Fantasy has that helps keeps it's replay-ability. If you play a RPG on Wesnoth, you cannot predict every little step, for some games, not even what monsters you'll be facing. And that is what makes it fun to replay, over and over again.

So, I just felt that because of all the hate on luck (again, normally by newer players), it needed some love. If it wasn't for the RNG, I probably would not have stayed and remembered Wesnoth.

[Unnheulu]

I agree.

[Jozrael]

Absolutely. I would have left Wesnoth within a week of finding it if not for the RPG. I'd be another advance wars. Just a tactical puzzle, nothing more.

[Doc Paterson]

Right on.

[Limabean]

I agree as well. This is something someone needed to say.

[Dave]

Yes, a big thing that many people don't seem to understand is that the RNG is fundamental to Wesnoth's gameplay. You can't have basically the same game of Wesnoth with or without the RNG. Without the RNG, or with the RNG being 'toned down' it would be just a tactical 'puzzle game' like Advance Wars or Fire Emblem. Such games are 'okay', but I really prefer the feel of a real battle.

And that is what Wesnoth is. Personally I love it. Since there have now undoubtedly been millions of games of Wesnoth played, apparently many others do too.

David

[MDG]

The RNG has been one of the key factors that has kept me coming back for more.

It seems an elegent, straightforward way to implement replayability within the game. Without the RNG a shocking amount of work would need to be done in so many areas of the project to introduce either far more (needlessly?) complex gameplay rules and/or larger quantities of units/factions/content in order to just have more to come back and play.... and I'm still not convinced the latter would achieve the same replayability. Rather than a good degree of replayability with the same content it would just be a case of 'learning' the different rules and/or content which would rapidly become boring once learnt. Some of the commercial games I have played in the past have definitely been guilty of this and, after the initial (short lived) novelty value, I have never bothered to load them up and play them again...

Definitely a fan of the RNG and the way it has been implemented. From my perspective, well done on this Dave and all who have defended the RNG over the years (i.e. Noy in particular plus the rest of the MP devs).

[Cololi]

I love the RNG. Without it I cannot beat some campaigns.

[grrr]

Nice, but not locking this thread is against the rules though ... =p

[Jozrael]

I believe its detractions to the RNG, asking it to be changed, whining about it, that irritates the moderators. I'm sure this one does their hearts good

[Fosprey]

for casual play the rng is great, for competitive play sucks.in fact i hate the fact that fire emblem doesn't have more luck involved, in a game against the computer i definitly want more randomness, funny wesnoth have an rng, and fire emblem do not.

[Dave]

for casual play the rng is great, for competitive play sucks.in fact i hate the fact that fire emblem doesn't have more luck involved, in a game against the computer i definitly want more randomness, funny wesnoth have an rng, and fire emblem do not.

You think multiplayer Fire Emblem would actually be fun? In my opinion it would be incredibly predictable and boring (and for that matter, probably decided by luck just as much as Wesnoth......you'd come up with your careful victory plan, and then someone would get a surprise critical hit, kill one of your characters, and it'd be all over for you).

IMO the RNG is exactly why multiplayer Wesnoth is fun. It's just the style of fun of Backgammon rather than Chess.

David

[Fosprey]

Fire emblem would be completly bad for competitive gaming, but for other reasons, the predictable damage is the only good thing it will have. And of course the critic system is bad both for the competitive game and casual game, is bad period.
Fire emblem more than a strategy game is a puzzle game with a story, that can't be good for a competitive game.
I hope i can show you that a deterministic damage can be good in this kind of games in the months to come, you could take a look at my post on multiplayer development to help me accelerate this process.

[Jozrael]

As I mentioned in my first post, I'm sure you could make a good game from wesnoth with deterministic damage.

I also wouldn't play it. There are literally hundreds of commercial games that have done what Wesnoth did, better (in some aspects). Except they're deterministic. And thus, the replayability for me is next to nothing. Even in multiplayer. The RNG is what MAKES Wesnoth for me, so taking it away would ruin the game for me.

Obviously, I can't speak for all players, and you are living proof that some exist which disagree. However, I feel the majority have views similar to mine.

[Fosprey]

The fact that you say EVEN in multiplayer show we are completly different kind of players, i dont' even think of playing singleplayer, and what i have to do with this is that i didn't saw a single game like wesnoth with determinstic damage all of them are single player games, and i have 0 interest in plaing single player strategy games. I have to note that i said for singleplayer games undeterministic damage is more interesting and better. i thikn that singleplayer you can do a lot of rare wild things and also common things and all work, when you have to make a multiplayer competitive game, it's not that simple.
In terms of pure design, designing a solid competitive multiplayer game is hugely harder than designing a single player game. At least on what pure game mechanics respect.