We want the Valley of the Statues & Mountain Pass in HTT

[La_vie_en_Wose]

Why those scenari would have been ignored as they introduce species like berseeker dwarves ans cockatrix, those you can't find anywhere else in the wesnoth campaigns ?

EDIT: Poll added by Mythological

[thespaceinvader]

I don't know why they were removed. But you can find, and use, dwarvish ulfs and berserkers in Northern Rebirth.

[Chris NS]

If I had more time, I'd look into putting "HttT extended" on the campaign server, with the extra two scenarios. But I don't.

[torangan]

They got removed because the campaign was considered too long and those scenarios not good enough. But Wesnoth is free, WML is easy so you can simply make a fork of httt containing them.

[santi]

I think that would be one case where user and developer opinion
is very different( by no means the only case). Like Toragan said though, you can easily insert them back, just edit the cfg file to say next scenario "Mountain pass" instead of "Dwarven Doors", insert the cfg and map files for the missing scenaria and you can play them(that's what I did)
. Reasoning is funny though: Too long? People play this for fun, the longer
the more fun it is, if it's a good campaign.

[CIB]

the longer
the more fun it is, if it's a good campaign.

But maybe it isn't a good campaign if it's too long? Seriously, tRoW would have been more fun with less scenarios.

[joshudson]

I still have them in my archive. Maybe I'll make another patch once 1.4 rolls around.

[santi]

CIB wrote:

But maybe it isn't a good campaign if it's too long? Seriously, tRoW would have been more fun with less scenarios.

?????
TROW is the best campaign IMHO. All scenaria are not things that were put in to pass the time, there is actually a purpose and set the stage for future developments, either in TROW or later in Wesnoth history.
For example the challenges explain why nagas and saurians join Jevyan
instead of being neutral, The drake island is hinted to be the drake homeland and so on. I really cannot understand the point against long campaigns, WHOSE STORY SUPPORTS THEIR LENGTH,
unless one really does not like playing Wesnoth.
But in that case this is the wrong forum, right?

[irrevenant]

?????
TROW is the best campaign IMHO. All scenaria are not things that were put in to pass the time, there is actually a purpose and set the stage for future developments, either in TROW or later in Wesnoth history.
For example the challenges explain why nagas and saurians join Jevyan
instead of being neutral, The drake island is hinted to be the drake homeland and so on. I really cannot understand the point against long campaigns, WHOSE STORY SUPPORTS THEIR LENGTH,
unless one really does not like playing Wesnoth.
But in that case this is the wrong forum, right?

I think this just demonstrates that different people get different things out of a game. You're clearly one of those people who appreciates a slow-reveal story. Some people are just into the gameplay and consider all that to be "fluff".

"Is TRoW too long?" - depends for who's tastes...

[thespaceinvader]

I'm somewhere in-between - i think tRoW is too long because it has too much of what i feel is filler - a lot of the scenarios do little to further the story, and those ones tend to be longer and difficult - particularly the naga one and the drake one.

[Velensk]

I realy liked the drake one even though it felt like it was there merely go include a fight against drakes, because the level was interesting to play. I did not like the naga one because of the conditon it inveriably left your treasury in due to the lack of villages, I also thought that the sea serpents were a bit prdictable after the first one. The lvl I realy did not like was the one where the goal is to avoid fighting for as long as possible. I think it may have been an interesting idea however it is not fun to play.

[thespaceinvader]

Lol, to use ESR (i think)'s terminology, that one's a bit of a tomato surprise - you can come out with a MUCH more healthy treasury by sending a scout out to meet the 'enemy', since the first contact with the enemy triggers the end, and it has (IIRC) an early finish bonus... I could be wrong. But then, doing that will finish it more quickly.

[santi]

My design strategy is:
-first, the story. Must be interesting, make sense, explain without constraining too much future campaigns.
Drakes, trolls, saurians and naga scenarios fill in nicely in this respect:
Drakes -it explains where they came from
Nagas,Trolls,saurians: why they align themselves with Jevyan(because the elves made Haldric and co their enemy-Haldric himself had no beef with them)
Cursed Isle: nice introduction without too many constraints to Isle of the damned
TROW, being the first campaign in Wesnoth history has a lot to explain
and it does so and gives many ideas without constraining, e.g. the spectre of fire, the second orcish invasion, the Wesnoth inhabitants.....
-second, gameplay. The story may be the story of a war with the orcs, but
it could get boring if you have some 20 scenarios fighting nothing but orcs. Or, better said, it could be much more interesting if you fight different races, so mix
it, but this must be done within the story. You will have to develop
different strategies to deal with different enemies(e.g. Anti-Saurian tactics)
Would you have preferred it if in TROW you'd fight nothing but orcs?
-Third, the maps and balancing: An example is the final 3 TROW scenario. Granted, could have been one big battle instead of three, but do you really mind? The story is great and you face 3 strategic challenges instead of only 1.

I should say many people like these design principle-that's based on my experience with feedback my campaign. Of course one does not have to
agree -but I certainely do not think the missing HttT scenarios are
of any lower quality than a number of mainline scenarios or campaigns.

[Mythological]

I've opened this issue on IRC dev channel and the reactions were mixed. Bringing Valley of the Statues and Mountain Pass back in HttT would mean reverting a previous developer decision so I wanted agreement from the others. Since there was no conclusion, at Soliton's suggestion I've added a poll to the thread so that we can see if and how many people would really want the scenarios in question back in HttT. So the outcome of the poll will have a big influence on what will be done about it. If nothing else, to prove that the developers are not always evil and arrogant despots to those who think so

I personally like long campaigns and others like long campaigns too. Some others like short campaigns. But those are the people TSG, TB, AOI are for. HttT was and it still is a long campaign. I would like Valley of the Statues & Mountain Pass in HttT back. Those scenarios might need some improvement in order to be back in mainline, but that can be done and I am willing to do it.

[zookeeper]

Since some people might want one scenario back but not the other, I added two more options.