Need advice: How to accept losing units

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Shade
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Post by Shade »

Velensk wrote: On the topic though, I have never had major problem because for the most part I veiw lvled combat units as being expenable the olny ones I will restart to save are, healers, leaders, mages, unreplaceable units such as the iron maulers in TRoW. If I lose enough lvled combat units (depending on lengnth of campain) I will consiter restarting.
Speaking of coping with loss: You know, those Maulers were intended to be throw away units. :) Really. After I released the first tarball or zip of TRoW (Long before the content downloader or TRoW was mainline). People were saying, "Nice of you to leave those maulers.", and I was like, "Yeah, eh!". Then I went back, saved the maulers, and had to re balance test all of the new stuff I was working on for the next few scenarios...

I've always had a rather casual disregard for life. I think that's half of the reason why TRoW has comparatively few characters you have to keep alive. :p (That, and it's easier to build a story, in 'Wesnoth format' with only a few characters, IMHO.)
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Zachron
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Post by Zachron »

So you're the Jerk who's made it so hard for me to keep anything alive in the Swamp of Esten Scenario. lol. I hear everyone talking about Clearwater Port this, Clearwater Port that, and I can't even get to Clearwater Port on moderate. (You know I ain't ever played The Rise of Wesnoth on Easy... and I ain't going to. Easy mode is too easy on all of them.)

Yeah, I lost many good men in the Heir to the Throne Campaign. I was able to keep a sizable force of regular recalls alive up to right before the Dwarf Mines. But then, units just began to drop like flies. I lost 3 Palladins on the Journey to retrieve the Scepter of Fire. And the only high level units I had left by the time I got out of those blasted caves were an elvish Shyde, a Dwarven Lord and a White Mage that were both recurited in those caves, and a Merman Warrior that I had never brought out in the caves.

Beholder
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Post by Beholder »

What worked for me.

First, I always bring some low level cheap melee unit to tag along. They are here to *die* and unless they are 8xp point of leveling, dying will be what they do.

When things get hairy, I bring these brave soldiers to the frontlines, shielding the hurt high level units and hope maybe 1 or 2 will survive.

Second, on some missions, I am willing to accept the loss of a high level unit for the "greater good". Usually this unit is a Grand Knight with a sect of Horsemen trying to do a mad rush against a enemy commander. I know the chances of the Grand Knight surviving this kind of attack are small, but I know too this is what Grand Knights are made for.

The secret is enter the fight *expecting* these soldiers to die.

Velensk
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Post by Velensk »

Zachron wrote:So you're the Jerk who's made it so hard for me to keep anything alive in the Swamp of Esten Scenario. lol. I hear everyone talking about Clearwater Port this, Clearwater Port that, and I can't even get to Clearwater Port on moderate. (You know I ain't ever played The Rise of Wesnoth on Easy... and I ain't going to. Easy mode is too easy on all of them.)

Yeah, I lost many good men in the Heir to the Throne Campaign. I was able to keep a sizable force of regular recalls alive up to right before the Dwarf Mines. But then, units just began to drop like flies. I lost 3 Palladins on the Journey to retrieve the Scepter of Fire. And the only high level units I had left by the time I got out of those blasted caves were an elvish Shyde, a Dwarven Lord and a White Mage that were both recurited in those caves, and a Merman Warrior that I had never brought out in the caves.
I think that there is somthing wrong here, unless you have a good reason you should not be recalling paladins or elves in the caves. If you recall lots of units into an area consisting entirely of unfavorable terrain then you should exspect to lose some even if they are high lvl.

If you don't like the swamps then go through the plains. I ussualy take that route.
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Zachron
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Post by Zachron »

Well a lot of them got killed in the scenarios leading up to the caves, then many others were needed to get through some of the tougher scenarios in the caves. I was in the Last few scenarios in the caves before I had a decent backbone of dwarves, that weren't dying constantly. Getting Kalienze leveled up proved very useful. Suddenly his Farie Fire went from being a total joke to being a total blast. I didn't focus enough on mages, so it was in the caves that I got my first and second white mage, but only one of them made it out of the scenario that spawned them, and having Delfadore and Kalienze leveled up meant I could do really fast takedowns on the leaders, making short work of trolls... It was kinda humorous now that I think about it. I had Delfadore to over 90 HP by the time that campaign was over... and I had lost that first white mage I got to a Cavalry charge.

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Iris
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Post by Iris »

Interesting. In the Dwarven tunnels scenarios in HttT, I only recall these units:

* A merman (don't ask why, you shall get it when it's the time for it)
* Sometimes, an Elvish Shyde, specially if I don't have Moremirmu for helping me.
* A dozen Dwarvish Fighters to the orcs, with Delfador leading them.
* Kalenz stays near Konrad in the start castle.
* Another dozen Dwarvish Fighters to the undead, with Elrian (usually he's a Silver Mage already when I get there) amongst them as supporter.
* Some more Dwarvish Fighters for the final battle against undead, some of those guys with guns (what was their name?).
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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

:hmm: An interesting observation is that I'm very bothered by losing high-level units in single-player campaigns, to the point where it nearly ruins any fun of playing the game. I'm good enough at playing that it's tolerable, since it doesn't happen very often, but it's still aggravating.

However, because there's no "next map" that they carry into, I have absolutely zero problem sacrificing one in multiplayer.



I suspect that this is similar for most other people who don't like losing units in campaigns.

waw
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Post by waw »

In some campaigns I have found myself with an abundance of cash. So I recruit expendable units and send them forth, (bunch of level 1's) and let them die but weaken the enemy. Then a second wave comes in and gets the experience... pretty soon you have a fairly well rounded high leveled group... all be it with high losses of nobodies. (I'm a jerk, I know).

Those that die... die. Try to pick people you don't like to do the daring stuff... those you like... clean up.
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Iris
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Post by Iris »

Exactly the way I do. That's why I send those disgusting filthy Thugs, Thieves, Spearmen, Lancers and Elvish Heroes into suicidal, while protecting Elvish Shyde, Shadows or Nightgaunts units by keeping them in the recall list - or, if I have enough gold, by protecting them with a circle of units.
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waw
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Post by waw »

Spearman are fairly cheap and if you do their quick level up to Javelineers you have my favorite unit. Easy to get, mediocre in range and melee.

You shouldn't get attached to their investment either because they are quick levels up... and then are still fairly expendable. I try to get a bunch of spearmen and send them off against the enemy... knowing they'll die... but hey... big deal :P Your other units come in and get leveled up... it cuts your cost of your investments down.
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