Need advice: How to accept losing units

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nessin
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Joined: July 23rd, 2007, 1:14 am

Need advice: How to accept losing units

Post by nessin »

I'm facing a big roadblock in my enjoyment of the game, I can't bring myself to lose characters I've built up and I end up spending so much time worrying over how to avoid losing units with the least amount of re-loading that I get frustrated and lose interest in playing. however, I really enjoy the game in between those times, so I want to try and make this work.

I'm hoping someone else has had a similar dilemma and can offer some advice as to how they overcame the problem. My biggest problem is that when I do decide to make the effort in saving my troops as best as possible without re-loading (which usually means losing a few along the way) I can't build up replacements in the later levels of a campaign. I suppose that probably gives a representation of my skill level.

Anyways, most of the time I just get attached to my characters and hate to see a several scenario investment get wiped out. So, hopefully someone has advice that might work for me?

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TL
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Re: Need advice: How to accept losing units

Post by TL »

How much do you recruit fresh new units once you start getting experienced level 2+ units to recall? Some scenarios (and some particularly hard campaigns) you're going to be tight on cash and can only afford to bring out the units you absolutely need, but if you can spare any money to bring in fresh recruits it can be really useful. Sometimes when casualties are just unavoidable it helps to throw out a couple of sacrificial pawns and let the AI kill them instead of having it wipe out valuable experienced troops. Plus you can feed XP to them if they survive and train up new level 2 units instead of wasting XP on max level units.

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Eleazar
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Post by Eleazar »

Perhaps you should try an easier campaign or difficulty level, where fewer losses are much more doable.
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Turuk
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Post by Turuk »

The advice of the two above me sums it up pretty much, but all I can say is this. There's always going to be a point in that one campaign, with that one scenario, where there's no conceivable way you can get through without losing a lvl 2 or 3 unit. I usually use a unit that I know I can do without(not that they all aren't key) but one that won't hurt my strategy any. It's war, and while there are a few players who pride themselves on playing loss free campaigns...it's not doable for everybody. Just going to learn not to get too attached, it's war and going to happen(sounds cheesy, but it's true).

hjwn
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Post by hjwn »

I know that feeling. I somehow overcame it when I started playing on "hard" difficulty. That's how I play:

1) I level up loyal characters (if there are any) as soon as possible, recall them in most scenarios, and of course keep them alive. That one is rather obvious, I just stated it for completeness and because it's my top priority. Should be common sense.

2) As soon as an unit reaches maxlevel, I recall it ONLY when it's really necessary. That way I get a bunch of LVL3s, and it's not that "emotionally touching" when I lose one (it's one out of several). Better yet, not having played an unit for a while weakens the attachment that might have developed. However, when money is tight I recall the best and try to finish as soon as possible, even if that means to sacrify a LVL 3. But I earn the money I need for the next item:

3) I try to have AT LEAST one throw away unit (the more the better) to either level up or use as canon fodder.

4) Think of "units" when it comes to expendables. Only the heros and the loyals should be considered as "characters" (duhh, don't know if this works).

For me it works much better on HARD difficulty, because it's much more easier to level up (due to higher level enemies). On easy it takes more time to level a unit and it may be easier to get attached to it. Harder may be easier :D
just blame it on the rng when you lose

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TheBladeRoden
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Post by TheBladeRoden »

My characters tend not to live long enough to get to Level 3 :p. But then again I've only done A Tale Of Two Brothers and The South Guard which are the shorter campaigns.

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Croc Paterson
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Re: Need advice: How to accept losing units

Post by Croc Paterson »

nessin wrote: I'm hoping someone else has had a similar dilemma and can offer some advice as to how they overcame the problem.
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Rhuvaen
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Post by Rhuvaen »

High level units are like the trumps of your hand - you play them to achieve something special. They are the heroes of your story - and often those stories end in a heroic death.

The worst that can happen to your 3rd level units is that they get dragged along for nothing, costing you lots of upkeep for little purpose, as a sort of "overkill" recruitment. A bored hero's story is written only in the account ledgers, not in the chronicles of history!

I really think hard before I recall a level 3 unit - do I need it for this particular scenario? Even level 2's should be selected, not auto-recalled. The power of advancement can often turn the tide of battle, and level 3's don't have that ace up their sleeve.

The level 1 infantry is what protects your recalls. They are the meat-shield, the brunt force, and sometimes they even advance to the select ranks.

Other than that, I recommend a piece of chocolate every time a level 3 unit dies... :P (unless you are susceptible to Pavlovian training...)

Clonkinator
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Post by Clonkinator »

However, don't get too lazy with your units. If you lost almost all your leveled up units in mid-campaign (not towards the end), you might consider to restart that level. The trick is, save only if really necessary and between scenarios.

sparr
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Post by sparr »

You don't get any points for having units left at the end of a campaign. The lives of your high level units are a resource to be spent wisely in achieving your goals. Given 3 mages of light, I once sent one along with 3 other level 3 units on a purely diversionary feint. They got about a dozen kills on level 1 units and distracted one of the AI players, as they all died. It was well worth it, the cost on any terms for any other strategy would have been greater.

Freighter
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Post by Freighter »

to my knowledge it is just a matter of using the units wisely
i think of the matter like this
don't use your high level units too much (namely level 2) but still dont be afraid use them or even sacrifice them to win. Once a unit has reached it's AMLA stage it is IMHO twice as easily killed as it was the level it was at a minute ago because it loses the privelage to get all of it's health back when it levels up. i use the strategy of having units on the verge of leveling up at the front line as sacrificial pawns because they seem to last longer in battle and get stronger right in the middle of the battle and get all of their health back. i would take a mage that has 3-5 xp till levelup to a red mage or even a white mage. :wink:
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Drake Clasher
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Post by Drake Clasher »

my strategy is two parts

1) don't loose high leveled units

2) if I do use a high leveled unit, thin quickly kill the unit who killed my unit :twisted: :twisted:
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Freighter
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Post by Freighter »

Drake Clasher wrote:my strategy is two parts

1) don't loose high leveled units

2) if I do use a high leveled unit, thin quickly kill the unit who killed my unit :twisted: :twisted:
there really is no point on exacting your revenge on a picture that can do no physical harm to you

unless of course it makes you feel much better
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8307c4
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Post by 8307c4 »

No, I have a real problem with this game's random factor, more so in Haldric's Rise of Wesnoth than any other campaign... Thou I suppose the problem was always present, it just hasn't irritated me to the point yet, having played all previous campaigns in order, this would be my 4th (or is it the 3rd, whatever).

I find the game on easy is too easy, and on medium the difficulty increases so drastically, but really it's this random factor that has such a wide path that it hardly doesn't matter what you fight with whom during what time of day, it's win or lose at the whim of the game.

I can tolerate some randomness, I understand this is part of gaming and I accept that I can't always hit the enemy as intended and vice-versa defenses can be better or worse, but to a point! I can also tolerate having to restart a fouled up campaign, but this is my 4th one and I am sure I've fought 100 battles by now, it should be getting to the point where it is not absolutely crucial that I pick the exact perfect character for every enemy and wait for the perfect time of day to attack with exactly the right weapon and then HOPE the dice roll right... We're talking grand knights and great mages, I am at this point where 1 or 2 little mistakes on my part shouldn't matter anymore, and I'm not about to restart the campaign to attempt to squeeze a 1,000 gold into this one battle (I have 566 starting) AND try to level things correctly AND hope I dont run out of turns, too.

The troll hole was bad enough, with those farking idk what they're called run up on you and poison and hit hard while you're exploring, nevermind those slinging trolls that at level 1 (or is it 2?) hit as hard back as my level 4 mage hits them!
I lost my silver mage to that level 1 punk little poison spider even thou I was hutted up but that wasn't bad, the dragon is way, way worse.

It's one thing if there exists a 90% chance of me defeating the enemy in the attack that it doesn't kill it, but it's quite another when it never hits the enemy even once and yet the enemy manages to strike 4 severely damaging blows in return, to where I can be fighting a level 1 saurian 16hp with my level 4 Great mage 97hp during the day, and in 1 stroke of sheer bad luck the saurian wipes out my hard earned character...

This is the kind of thing I can deal with if I accidentally sent a level 2 human against the same saurian at night, and on the odd situation a level 3, but a level 4 ought to defeat a level 1 pretty much regardless, but it doesn't, and it happens to go the wrong way a lot more than I'd care to remember.

It should be a 1 in a million chance that a level 1 defeats a level 4, come on now, gimme a break.

To me load-saving is cheating but to a point a necessary evil of all games, but when all I do is load-save 15 times between each turn until the random dice roll the way they should (which is to say so severely in my favor that I CANT lose), the game and the fun factor lose their appetite.

My suggestion is narrow the randomness some, don't do away with it but don't give it such a broad scope.
Then again, maybe the game is just right for some folks, but the spice sure annoys me :lol:

I would like to conclude by saying that out of all the free games I've tried, it still is one of the best and if you never do anything else to it I would still give it two thumbs up, if not as enthusiastically as I might like to.

MDG
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Post by MDG »

Welcome to the forums.

If you need help with specific scenarios/campaigns, post up in the Strategies and Tips section of the forum. Also use the search functionality with the scenario name. Plenty of advice around. I know how you feel and do sympathise, when I first starting playing ages ago I got stuck on the Ford of Abez in Heir to the Throne because I kept trying to go after Princess Lisar (I was constantly in 'Recall best units then kill all enemies' mode, irrespective of terrain/situation) checking the forum tipped me off that a) going after Lisar was a bad idea and b) I needed to use Merfolk units to get across the ford easier.

Do a search on keywords like "luck" and "randomness" and you'll get some idea of the likelihood of this core element of the game being changed.

Post up replays in the Strategies and Tips section and people will help you improve your tactics. Sounds like you're having a nightmare although there is often a psychological effect in play regarding always remembering bad luck and often not noticing good luck.

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