My Wesnoth 1.3 wish list

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mtx
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My Wesnoth 1.3 wish list

Post by mtx » November 10th, 2006, 4:13 pm

Ok, as the new stable version is around the corner I want to congratulate all the dev team for a well done job!
I also want to give some feedback as a long time and shy project follower.
I think some things like graphics, multiplayer and wml features have made a great progress. However content has not evolved very much since 1.0.
My totally unrealistical wish for 1.3 is that a new awesome campaign would be included in the game with great plot, interesting custom characters and graphics and strategically/tactically challenging maps (this is a strategy game after all).
I would love to see this campaign with Jetryl & Neo's custom graphics, Turin's plot and campaign experience, Zookepers WML and Doc's maps to name a few potential contributors.

I know that this won't ever happen due to innumerable reasons, but you really have the potential to create great content for the game, much more than any newcomers would have in the near and midterm future.
For sure new content would add much more the game than any improvement in those areas that are already great in this current version.

Anyway a wish is a wish. Maybe a meteor is crossing the sky while I write :-)

jg
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Post by jg » November 10th, 2006, 4:34 pm

I have to agree, I would like to have a new great campaign too. There are some nice ones on the campaign server, but nothing like the HttT has been seen in a long time (if I am wrong please don't kill me... :P).

Perhaps, after the graphics and the code has advanced so much, comes an era of new campaigns...

jg

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Post by Elvish_Pillager » November 10th, 2006, 4:49 pm

HttT isn't that great, and where it is good it benefits from having been designed by committee, unlike just about every other extant campaign.
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Post by Sapient » November 10th, 2006, 5:05 pm

Designing MP maps is a fine art and Doc is the expert, but for SP maps the challenge is different. I think the best SP map design team would be someone with a great sense of geographical aesthetics, like Starglider or Becephalus, combined with a great playtester, like Soliton. ;)
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Post by zookeeper » November 10th, 2006, 5:11 pm

Thanks!

As for the content...I agree, single-player content is the part of Wesnoth that's in the worst shape. There's a lot of campaigns, but most are plain bad (the mainline ones are all at least somewhat playable, but only HttT and UtBS are even reasonably good). The best thing that could happen would be to get at least one or two new, genuinely good campaigns. As you said, there's been a lot of development regarding WML features, for example, and these would allow for a "new generation" of campaigns much more refined than the old ones. The idea of forming a team of experienced people to build a new, good campaign is a good one and worth looking into. It would still most likely take a lot of time to do, but a team could potentially work much faster than a single author. If only we can get such a team organized and held together, which is a challenge in itself.

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Post by Baufo » November 10th, 2006, 9:13 pm

Well HttT is simply the great classic campaign. I like it just as it is. I think it was written in days when Wesnoth simply did not allow much more than those defeat-all-enemy-leaders scenarios. But since I think 95% of all Wesnoth users play this campaign first and regard it as the "main" mainline campaign they might think it is some kind of "standart" which all other campaigns should try to imitate. In fact I think, even it is a great campain with a great plot it does not really used the great abilities WML offers nowadays. So if this "new awesome campaign" was really done I would like to see some really great WML tricks but very little defeat-all-enemy-leaders scenarios :)
Even if you probably won't need any help with such a lot of great skilled people I would love to constribute to this project (especially if I have been working on at least 3 campaings which I all canceled because I could not do the English for the dialogs in a way that pleased me).
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde

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Post by Dave » November 10th, 2006, 10:55 pm

I think that a big problem with campaigns is they are mostly developed using the "one guy who gets a few small contributions from others" methodology. Considering all the skills needed to make a good campaign -- storyline, map design, dialog, balancing/testing, artwork, even music and sound effects -- it is unlikely one person is that good at all of them.

As such, I think it would be nice if we had some of our best content developers collaborate on a campaign. Probably the most difficult part is maintaining leadership and some kind of agreement on how to move forward.

Still, it would really be cool if it could be done.

David
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Post by Flametrooper » November 10th, 2006, 10:58 pm

I'm no dev, but I'll work on the story/dialog part - creative writing is a strong point for me, and dramatic writing as well. My art skills are rather lacking, though I've created a few decent sprites for my custom faction; I can do maps for campaigns okay, and I'm in the process of learning WML. Let me know via PM what, if anything, you want me to do to help this, if it ever gets underway.

SunTzu
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Post by SunTzu » November 11th, 2006, 12:26 am

I can help on any storyline-writing and map making.I have background in both(yes, making a campaign in AoC is different from making one here, but the storyline writing and map making skills apply here as well, imo). If you're interested.um..just ask. :D

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Post by Flametrooper » November 11th, 2006, 3:42 am

From the restricted forum, where I can't reply:
Jetryl wrote:
Eleazar wrote: That's exactly why i proposed we choose someone as a "story lead." You can't really write a good story by commitee, especially a large commitee where everyone has an equal vote. That doesn't mean other people can't contribute to the story, but for efficiency and coherency someone needs to have the final say.
Yes.
Eleazar wrote: I think Quartex (if he wants to do it) is someone who's story writing skills we could all respect.
Civility would dictate that I keep feelings like this to myself, but this could do a lot more damage if left unsaid. To be frank - Quartex has made one of our best campaigns, one of the most enjoyable to play, but I don't have much faith in his ability to come up with good ideas for fantasy settings. He is great at making interesting scenarios, and putting wesnoth's features to good use, he's a great guy, but his general plot/setting work is, IMO, very stilted and cliché.

I'd love to have him as a consultant for scenario design and balance, but I absolutely refuse to work under him as a project leader; not because he's a bad guy - he's a great guy, and fun to be around and work with. But I don't think he has the necessary vision for it to be worth spending my time on.
What we can brainstorm about, however, is the basic setting. The storyline should have a single lead writer, I agree; but the basic setting (Is it people rebelling against an unjust ruler? Defending their home? Conquering new land? That sort of thing) would be better by brainstorm. My personal suggestion is to not be super-strongly constrained by history; what's on the wiki mainly allows for cliche plots. If we had to pick a historical period, however, I'd say the Taming of the Wild is my vote.

...actually, I have an idea for something totlly different, but it doesn't have any place in the established history...I suppose I could ask Turin about that.

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Post by Aiua » November 11th, 2006, 11:24 am

Maybe a campaing where you cant recrut any troops , you must keep alive the troop of the first mission in all the campaign (indeed you find some help in each mission ...)
C'est dans ton vomis qu'on vois que t'as trop bu...

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Post by Clonkinator » November 11th, 2006, 6:42 pm

Well, I think I can make some good maps, and so I would be glad to help you, if you want. But actually, I don't have the newest version of Wesnoth... (And it isn't easy for me to change that since I have a 56k-modem)
A new campaign would be great. It should be really long (at least 25 maps...?), and I'm pleased about the idea of being unable to recruit after the first scenario. I'm really looking forward to such a campaign. :wink:

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Post by Gafgarion » November 11th, 2006, 7:01 pm

Flametrooper wrote:What we can brainstorm about, however, is the basic setting. The storyline should have a single lead writer, I agree; but the basic setting (Is it people rebelling against an unjust ruler? Defending their home? Conquering new land? That sort of thing) would be better by brainstorm. My personal suggestion is to not be super-strongly constrained by history; what's on the wiki mainly allows for cliche plots. If we had to pick a historical period, however, I'd say the Taming of the Wild is my vote.

...actually, I have an idea for something totlly different, but it doesn't have any place in the established history...I suppose I could ask Turin about that.
I disagree that the history constrains storylines into cliche plots. If anything, we have an opportunity to make a more robust history.

Remember, history is written by (and censored by) the victors. Is our timeline written from an omnipotent point of view, or rather a view widely-accepted by the populace of Wesnoth?
-Gafgarion
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Post by Baufo » November 11th, 2006, 7:35 pm

I like the idea of a lot of branches that was brought up in the dev forum. A campaign the could be played more than one time and still bring new and interesting scenarios (and storyline) would be great.
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde

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Post by Flametrooper » November 11th, 2006, 11:32 pm

I just got a few ideas:

1) A campaign about a young horseman, telling the story of how the Horse Clans were formed, and how they became independent from, yet allied with, the Wesnothian army.

2) A campaign featuring the Swamp of Dread, the one north of the Great River. It could be that it wasn't always a swamp, then something happened and it became so. Before it became a swamp, there was a prosperous city in it somewhere...campaign features city's downfall and its inhabitants' struggle to survive in their homeland that has been turned to swamp.

3) A campaign in which a group of magi get the idea that they are more powerful than the army of Wesnoth, and plot a rebellion. Revenge could be involved, or money, or politics. The hero of the campaign is a young mage whose father is in the Loyalist Army/his girlfriend supports the Loyalist army/whatever and he has to make a difficult choice about who to fight for. This could involve the "branching" that people were talking about in the restricted forum.

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