Are humans overfeatured?

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Re: Are humans overfeatured?

Postby Yomar » April 9th, 2017, 10:30 am

doofus-01 wrote:
SigurdFireDragon wrote:It seems reasonable for the game to be human-centric given what it was inspired by & when everyone who plays it is a human.
Yeah. And really, elves, dwarves, and even orcs are basically humans. Would it help if the Kalifate were given pointy ears?


It it's for that, we can also say that the game is too much humanoid centric, almost all the units are humanoid shaped, I can think only offline few units that are not, like bats, wolves, griffins, horses in the default era.
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Re: Are humans overfeatured?

Postby The Great Rings » April 20th, 2017, 11:33 pm

Yeah, I think humans are over-featured.

Dwarves and elves get featured quite a bit, of course, and the orcs are often used as villains and even got their own mainline campaign, but I'd like to see more on the factions that aren't the generic Tolkienesque fantasy staples.

I've been out of the Wesnoth loop for a while, but last I recall, Drakes/Saurians and Undead didn't even have a mainline campaign (well, okay, the undead have Descent Into Darkness, but the protagonist is human- having an actual ghost or skeleton as the hero would be interesting).

The friendly ghost from Northern Rebirth always interests me as a character, for example.
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Re: Are humans overfeatured?

Postby The_Gnat » April 23rd, 2017, 5:56 am

I agree with you but technically decent into darkness is an undead campaign because the protagonist becomes a lich and more importantly you can recruit undead through out the campaign.

Also 1.13.7 added a new campaign secret of the ancients. I have not played it (yet) but i understand its plot is about the birth of necromancy so it could fill the role as another undead campaign. (or it could fill the role of another campaign about undead with a human as the main character ;) )

As for drakes and saurians - i would not be interested in a saurian campaign ;) (unless it was written exceptionally well) but i do think that one of the UMC drake campaigns should be added to mainline because drakes are an integral part of wesnoth (and come on even the merman have a mainline campaign).
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Re: Are humans overfeatured?

Postby James_The_Invisible » April 23rd, 2017, 7:59 am

secret of the ancients ... is about the birth of necromancy

Uhm, no. Necromancy was known to mankind long before this campaign has begun (remember Lord Liches on Green Isle), just its protagonist is trying to learn it. As far as I know, she will succeed and become a lich in the end.
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Re: Are humans overfeatured?

Postby The Great Rings » April 23rd, 2017, 7:20 pm

The_Gnat wrote:I agree with you but technically decent into darkness is an undead campaign because the protagonist becomes a lich and more importantly you can recruit undead through out the campaign.


Fair enough, I guess, but I'd still like a campaign with a ghost or skeleton protagonist, I think.

For that matter, could we give the ghost from Northern Rebirth his own campaign? I can't code worth a damn, but if anyone's interested, I'd be happy to help with plot/dialog. NR is my favourite campaign, and deserves a sequel/spin-off (particularly when HttT has two or three already).

Also 1.13.7 added a new campaign secret of the ancients. I have not played it (yet) but i understand its plot is about the birth of necromancy so it could fill the role as another undead campaign. (or it could fill the role of another campaign about undead with a human as the main character ;) )


Ah. That must be the development version. I'm currently playing on 1.12.6, I believe, so missed it.

As for drakes and saurians - i would not be interested in a saurian campaign ;) (unless it was written exceptionally well) but i do think that one of the UMC drake campaigns should be added to mainline because drakes are an integral part of wesnoth (and come on even the merman have a mainline campaign).


I'd like a Saurian campaign. They need fleshing out, but there's a lot you could do around crafting the society of cold-blooded, reptilian creatures, which would likely be very different from human (far more than even dwarves or elves or orcs).

But then, I've long thought lizard people were cool. Comes of being a dinosaur-lover, I suppose. :)
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Re: Are humans overfeatured?

Postby James_The_Invisible » April 23rd, 2017, 8:31 pm

I'd still like a campaign with a ghost or skeleton protagonist, I think.

And what about a sentient zombie as the protagonist? Because I know that there is such a campaign on 1.12 add-ons server :D .
That must be the development version.

Right but 1.14 (next stable series with it shipped) should come out soon. I have heard something about this summer.
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Re: Are humans overfeatured?

Postby Gyra_Solune » April 23rd, 2017, 8:37 pm

There absolutely ought to be a Drake/Saurian campaign - I've written up an outline for one but stuff got in the way. I know pretty much exactly when it ought to be taking place though.

And well, the thing with an Undead without the dark mages is that undead creations are canonically somewhat mindless, usually needing orders from their necromancers to function beyond basic survival. They can still exist if the mage who made them is dead but they just sorta roam around and attack whatever gets in their way, and that's not a very compelling story for a campaign. Ghosts are implied to have a little more agency but I still can't envision them leading an army - a potent spirit is more likely to act on their own. Maybe there's a story there, a ghost raised with such a potent grudge that it goes on a crusade for vengeance...

I think there's a campaign to be made of the Great Continent before humans even arrived there. The dwarves and elves have been there for centuries after all, and I've been thinking of a campaign set about a big war between the two...but focused on a third group jockeying for power, a coalition of the lesser races. I could see a band of Nagas trying to make a move and rounding up the Saurians, Trolls, and Ogres to get their own thing out of the conflict.
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Re: Are humans overfeatured?

Postby The Great Rings » April 23rd, 2017, 8:55 pm

Gyra_Solune wrote:There absolutely ought to be a Drake/Saurian campaign - I've written up an outline for one but stuff got in the way. I know pretty much exactly when it ought to be taking place though.


When? :)

And well, the thing with an Undead without the dark mages is that undead creations are canonically somewhat mindless, usually needing orders from their necromancers to function beyond basic survival. They can still exist if the mage who made them is dead but they just sorta roam around and attack whatever gets in their way, and that's not a very compelling story for a campaign. Ghosts are implied to have a little more agency but I still can't envision them leading an army - a potent spirit is more likely to act on their own. Maybe there's a story there, a ghost raised with such a potent grudge that it goes on a crusade for vengeance...


Their are examples of more powerful ghosts and skeletons having agency of their own, and appearing to possess a degree of sapience/free will.

Walking corpses and ghouls seem entirely mindless in all examples I'm aware of.

I think there's a campaign to be made of the Great Continent before humans even arrived there. The dwarves and elves have been there for centuries after all, and I've been thinking of a campaign set about a big war between the two...but focused on a third group jockeying for power, a coalition of the lesser races. I could see a band of Nagas trying to make a move and rounding up the Saurians, Trolls, and Ogres to get their own thing out of the conflict.


This.

And, for that matter, of wherever the Wesfolk came from, before the Green Isle.

And their war with the men of the Green Isle.
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Re: Are humans overfeatured?

Postby Gyra_Solune » Yesterday, 6:08 pm

While it's a dense period of time for campaigns, I think a scenario about drakes arriving en masse to the Great Continent, and setting up their status, ought to occur in the period of time surrounding Eastern Invasion - more specifically, just about simultaneously to Dead Water and Northern Rebirth. I think that's explicitly when they began migrating - chronologically their only appearances prior are in the beginning of Rise of Wesnoth, where they're obviously not on the Continent yet, and at one point in Heir to the Throne, where they're a weird anomaly that nobody's ever seen before.

I think though that the Green Isle and the Wesfolk will need some expansion before a campaign can be set there though - as far as we know the only races found there are humans, orcs, and the undead.
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Re: Are humans overfeatured?

Postby taptap » Yesterday, 6:33 pm

There already are like four drake campaigns, there is at least one saurian campaign, and with return of the monster there is even a naga-centric campaign. They may have their flaws, but they are there.
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