What are the worst units in the game

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Re: What are the worst units in the game

Postby Eagle_11 » March 9th, 2016, 9:45 am

Or I could go back to Wolf Rider, which is really quite bad on its own merits. As the Northerners' scouting unit, it's a necessary evil to recruit one or two early for the initial village grab, but it's straight garbage compared to the other scouting units. Even if Goblin Pillager is a sweet promote.

Are you kidding me ? Wolf Riders are simply put awesome, i can only recommend learn to play Northerners at all before spouting such garbage. :whistle:
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Re: What are the worst units in the game

Postby Gyra_Solune » March 9th, 2016, 9:59 pm

Wolf Riders are kind of like a better version of what the Cavalryman can do strategically, but worse tactically. As a land unit the Wolves traversing terrain is only matched by like, the Elvish Scout, so they're way better at getting to be exactly where you need them while Cavalry can get bogged down. However, they're very flimsy, just about the second least powerful melee-only unit in the game, and cost a fair bit of gold, tied as the Northerner's most expensive unit with the Assassin who is undoubtedly threatening and useful for the faction (especially given most of the weakest offensive units in the game are all in the faction and as such poison is essential - nagas and trolls offer little better than a sidearm weapon's worth of damage, Orcish Grunts have the lowest base damage of any central melee unit in the game barring the Khalifate as they lack a melee footsoldier).

As a scout unit it's definitely better than the Cavalryman, but as a combat unit its significant tactical shortcomings and cost prohibiting for the strength-through-numbers Northerners make it not the most amazing thing. Scouting units are always a mixed bag, typically not being the best units - Loyalists mitigate this by making their scout not as good at actual scouting but far more viable as a core combat unit, while the elves jack up the price for extreme speed and weak but equal dual-ranging, so the Wolf Rider is firmly between those, and should be used accordingly. Meanwhile other factions have bird-esque units that are either fragile and not imposing in combat, or extremely expensive.
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Re: What are the worst units in the game

Postby Mystery » March 10th, 2016, 10:07 am

I mean, the 2 Cave movement is okay on some maps and the 1 Hills is actually useful, but I'm taking Drake Glider all day over Wolf Rider: -1g cost, even better terrain costs (WR still wins Cave but hey, Saurians are more mobile there than either!), dual range including Marksman on the ranged attack which is handy (even if it is weak) to say nothing of superior damage types (Impact/Fire) that may well make up the difference in raw numbers. In other words, Glider is cheaper yet both more mobile and more competent in combat.

As for the other two mid-range scouts, discounting the level zeroes and the 24g Gryphon of course, I'll gladly pay up 1g for the Elvish Scout as it's also more mobile and certainly more combat-capable than either WR or the Glider. (To be fair to WR, again it has better raw damage numbers offensively since the Scout has its total damage output evenly split between melee and range.) While Cavs are slightly less mobile simply on terrain costs, which I dare say really isn't that significant since scouts are first and foremost village-grabbers and vision-providers so the near-universal 1 Flat terrain cost is what rules the day, nonetheless it doesn't come near closing the gap between their relative combat capabilities. Cavs are legitimate frontline fighters.

Or, long story short, compared to the other mid-range scouts, Wolf Rider is the second least mobile and arguably the worst in combat (not strictly worse but tough to argue overall). And it's not even the cheapest among those options! How the hell does that work? Well, I know how it works, because units aren't balanced on an individual basis but by faction as a whole, still they're pretty bad on their own merits.

On strict usefulness, I'm still thinking Bowman although that HI mention is not a bad choice either. Wolf Riders are obviously necessary to operate as a Northerners player. Bowmen, for all their averageness, are simply inferior to Spearmen in most regards even against Drakes. Spearmen beat Clashers head-to-head for their cost, sometimes even outright depending on traits and ToD, and Spearmen are as much better offensively against Burners as Bowmen are defensively. Maybe they fare better against Saurians, since Spearmen's melee damage is mitigated while the Bowman's ranged focus dissuades Augurs from going too hard in the paint. I'm not sure you ever want more than one or two solely for the sake of variety, something you can use as a blocker against range-heavy comps or for the finishing blow on a melee attacker to mitigate damage (keeping in mind that, if you fail to kill, the Spearman is probably better fending for itself defensively next turn).
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Re: What are the worst units in the game

Postby Gyra_Solune » March 11th, 2016, 4:57 am

Cave movement isn't that important to my perspective. I rarely see cave terrain in many critical spots (probably because dwarves are almost the only units who really benefit from it). It's there sometimes, on the fringes of places, but the capacity to move in caves isn't really more than a small nifty bonus on the Rider.

Unquestionably the Drake Glider is the best scout unit in the game - comparisons are kind of unfair! ^^; But then, that's the only way it could be for the Drakes - their core fighter is designed as being extremely fast, mobile, and hard to take down that easily, and that guy's in armor. Of course the drake's scout is going to be pretty good but also cheap since it's just 'a drake not wearing anything'. Really though, all units are not created equal and some units are worse at their specific role because that's the only way they can work in the faction. It would be crazy if the Northerners had a super competent scouting unit because their infantry game is so strong, so a powerful wolf rider would make it exceptionally hard to strategically out-maneuver the bulk of their land forces.
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Re: What are the worst units in the game

Postby ElderofZion » December 12th, 2016, 1:16 am

I think there are quite a few bad units in the game but these do have their limited uses in particular situations and in fact can be really useful in these particular situations.

But I think the unit I was the least successful with was believe or not the thief, overall I consider all 3 HODOR units to be weak, but poacher can be decent and footpad too though its damage is really bad and vs loyalists it dies instantly. The thief on the other hand, sure, if you get backstab you can get SLIGHTLY more damage than you would get with a normal unit (dwarf fighter deals 7-3, thief with backstab and no bonus deals 8-3), but the thing is even if you make the thief for that one particular situation where it will get backstab (and most likely it won't get backstab ever again) even if it does get backstab it is sometimes questionable whether it was really worth it since usually you have to expose him and it has so low hp (same hp as the mage) that it dies so easily, and you just lost 13 g for like a 14 g or so kill at best. But there is one more thing, it often happens that you won't get backstab at all and the enemy is just smart enough to not scatter his units around like a noob and not to give you a backstab, then the thief becomes just completely useless and a waste.
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Re: What are the worst units in the game

Postby DwarvenWarrior » February 13th, 2017, 1:57 am

poacher is most useless (too low damage thunderer is better less hp and less all)

most other units are ok
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Re: What are the worst units in the game

Postby Solitary__Orc » February 17th, 2017, 3:32 am

the orcish shamans in the son of black eye.
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Re: What are the worst units in the game

Postby DwarvenWarrior » February 18th, 2017, 12:05 am

Solitary__Orc wrote:the orcish shamans in the son of black eye.

but he asked for multi player units xD
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