Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Feedback for the mainline campaign The Hammer of Thursagan.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

User avatar
Content Feedback
Battle for Wesnoth
Location: #wesnoth @ chat.freenode.net
Contact:

Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by Content Feedback » March 10th, 2008, 11:19 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Mainline Campaigns: Scenario FeedbackDevelopment & Overall Feedback
User-made Add-ons: Feedback

wnsk
Posts: 12
Joined: November 21st, 2006, 12:49 pm
Location: SG

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by wnsk » March 17th, 2008, 1:03 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Normal.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6.5/10. Slightly harder than the previous scenarios, but still appropriately challenging.


(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Defeat the lich-dwarf. No problem.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Love the "I AM A WITNESS!!!" bits, lol. The masked dwarfs were a pretty original take on the dwarf faction. Nitpick: the "cut-scene" after this was a bit lacking, for a true ending.


(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Not losing any of the three heroes. Having to split the army and fight more than 1 front; leaving a rearguard to choke off pursuit. Rotating warriors (since I only had 2 healers: 1 white mage and the dwarf witness). Wraith ambushes!! (Didn't see those coming.)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

10/10. The map was very well-designed. The unlimited time was a good move, as it encouraged exploration; plenty of forks. I took a long time to finish this map; despite that, I did not feel this was especially tedious--thoroughly enjoyed it. A fitting conclusion (in terms of scope) to the campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I had some of units walk into an ambush in the SE corner. One of my dwarf lords couldn't retreat fast enough; I had to abandon him and he ended up surrounded by wraiths and deathblades. I thought he was a goner, but the undead did not attack him, choosing instead to go after my other units that had successfully retreated behind my battle-line. Pretty strange behaviour, that. It worked to my benefit, but the fact that it made little sense marred my immersion a bit.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Losing the dwarf lord hero, or special units I didn't want to lose (e.g. my only Great Mage, Gryphon Master, Dragonguard, etc).

tonyg_wesnoth
Posts: 4
Joined: August 12th, 2008, 1:32 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by tonyg_wesnoth » August 12th, 2008, 1:56 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7.Very difficult compared to the earlier scenarios until I looked after my Mages a bit better.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Storyline was very good.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? Kept running out of units because I didn't have any healers.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8.Very good except for a long walk (see below) and an error on 1.5.0 on opening THE door where I got 'Unknown Unit Type'. Still haven't resolved it.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Other than a fix for the error above. I found some shortcuts but had a long walk from unlocking the door to get back to it.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Restarted LOTS of times
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Sorry, don't know WML.

kirsis
Posts: 1
Joined: August 13th, 2008, 5:03 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by kirsis » August 13th, 2008, 5:13 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7. I loved the ability to blockade a tunnel by putting two armed lvl 3 fighters/guardians in the towers. Two units could hold back a horde of enemies (which, for some reason, were reluctant to attack if the towers were manned)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Only part that confused me were the gates. They looked like gold mines and I never realized they're gates until I stood next to one and destroyed it. Thus, the whole "runes looks like the ones on this gate" part made me think "wtf, what gate?"

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very good :)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I thought this would be a no-purchase type scenario in the beginning, so I spent all my cash ASAP and had like -12 gold per turn. When I realized I could buy reinforcements, I was about 400 in debt :) So the major challenge was trying to fight the enemy with a limited number of units and waiting for the debt to disappear (eventually did and I could buy some reinforcements). It made the whole experience more fun though, imo.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. Was very impressed with it. Especially the tunnel towers, it just felt so good blocking tunnels and holding hordes of enemies away with a few units while the rest heal and regroup :)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nothing comes to mind, sorry. It was pretty damn fun as it is :)

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Sorry, wouldn't know about that

Setsuna F. Seiei
Posts: 7
Joined: October 11th, 2008, 1:01 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by Setsuna F. Seiei » October 11th, 2008, 3:48 pm

wnsk wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Normal.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6.5/10. Slightly harder than the previous scenarios, but still appropriately challenging.


(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Defeat the lich-dwarf. No problem.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Love the "I AM A WITNESS!!!" bits, lol. The masked dwarfs were a pretty original take on the dwarf faction. Nitpick: the "cut-scene" after this was a bit lacking, for a true ending.


(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Not losing any of the three heroes. Having to split the army and fight more than 1 front; leaving a rearguard to choke off pursuit. Rotating warriors (since I only had 2 healers: 1 white mage and the dwarf witness). Wraith ambushes!! (Didn't see those coming.)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

10/10. The map was very well-designed. The unlimited time was a good move, as it encouraged exploration; plenty of forks. I took a long time to finish this map; despite that, I did not feel this was especially tedious--thoroughly enjoyed it. A fitting conclusion (in terms of scope) to the campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I had some of units walk into an ambush in the SE corner. One of my dwarf lords couldn't retreat fast enough; I had to abandon him and he ended up surrounded by wraiths and deathblades. I thought he was a goner, but the undead did not attack him, choosing instead to go after my other units that had successfully retreated behind my battle-line. Pretty strange behaviour, that. It worked to my benefit, but the fact that it made little sense marred my immersion a bit.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Losing the dwarf lord hero, or special units I didn't want to lose (e.g. my only Great Mage, Gryphon Master, Dragonguard, etc).
They probably went for the others because they were weaker and your dwarf lord had more hp than the others

Lumaca
Posts: 7
Joined: October 5th, 2008, 11:18 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by Lumaca » October 24th, 2008, 5:41 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.4.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
8, go and kill the boss, seems pretty straightforward.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
7, Not Bad

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Distance, I finished the map in 138 turns.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9, Diablo-esque map.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
There were purple spots in the ground that I THINK are teleportation runes, but I can't seem to work them out. I had to transport my units from the top of the map to the bottom of the map by walking those short dwarven legs...

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yesss, my boss character actually bravely walking towards a horde of spectres and got surrounded. Alone. But that was my own stupidity.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
-

phaz
Posts: 3
Joined: October 19th, 2008, 12:21 pm

awesome scenario

Post by phaz » November 1st, 2008, 9:14 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
easy

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
crystal

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
excellent

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
staying alive, since i didn't realize this was such a long, huge, game unto itself level i let my mage with the staff of righteousness die early, not on purpose, had i known what else awaited i would have protected her better to help survive the level.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10+ one of the most challenging and exciting levels i've played yet, very tactical and difficult, barely made it through. excellent work! 109 turns, fun, fun, fun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
possibly add a village in SE, there wasn't anywhere to fallback to for healing, but this did make it a challenge.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
no

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
n/a

Mobus
Posts: 2
Joined: November 5th, 2008, 9:31 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by Mobus » November 6th, 2008, 12:12 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Up until the teleportation gates, 8, after teleporting, 4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
42
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Best part of this campaign. It really made me feel like I was playing D&D again. I think the wrap-up scenario was a little short but it was adequate.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
My own stupidity (HEY let's send Ducatlos into a crowd of masked dwarves with only 2 HP! Great idea!!)
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
15. One of the best I've played.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I'd've added a couple moar baddies on the path between the teleporter and the boss.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Again, me sending in a gameloss with low health into a crowd of baddies.

User avatar
Turuk
Sithslayer
Posts: 5283
Joined: February 28th, 2007, 8:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by Turuk » January 13th, 2009, 4:32 am

A few notes first.
It took 103 total turns. Probably more than the whole campaign combined.
Also, I entered this scenario with 157 kills over 10 previous combat scenarios. I ended with 329, meaning that I killed 172 units, more than the rest of the campaign combined as well. ;)

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Lord (Challenging) 1.5.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6. Not too hard as I have enough level 3s to field a small army (14 level 3s and even 6 level 2s). Only had to account for the wearing down of the HP of my units, and it mainly became a scenario of rotating new Dwarvish Lords to the front 2-3 hexes in order to kill until their HP got low... then back to the rear, heal, repeat.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good, I thought it was a well-done finish to the campaign, and this scenario was full of little conversations and twists that make the player have to keep on the go.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Took so damn long, and just keeping focused so I would not make a dumb mistake. I was cutting through the enemy units like a hot knife through butter though.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Long, drawn-out, so many enemies, but it was nice to have a full-on slug fest for once. Nothing too fancy, just cave tunnels with little surprises and an endless flow of dwarves to fight forward against one step at a time.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Potentially smaller, it is fun, but my attention span and interest wavered after about turn 50.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
I found a bug where the player is still allowed to recruit mages despite having the mage character die off in a previous scenario (Forbidden Forest). The macro is just missing from this scenario's code.

Reported = https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?12852
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

silent
Posts: 244
Joined: February 20th, 2009, 5:53 am

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by silent » February 20th, 2009, 6:14 am

it took me a whooping 320+ turns to beat this level :shock:

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.4.7
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. It's difficult the first time round as you don't expect giant spiders. It also helps if you think before opening doors and keeping your forces together is an absolute must
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very. It's more finding the leaders which is difficult
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Fairly interesting. I think Karrag could say a bit more when you enter his movement range
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Holding off white dwarves, dealing with steelclad spam by the purple, shadows (I HATE shadows with a passion now), giant spiders, Orange lich's forces. Not much really
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 The tactics and luck required for this scenario are huge which makes for interesting fun but the sheer size of the level and forces means it takes quite a while to move units (esp mages) and shadows may cause a few save-loads
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Despite my hate of shadows, none really. Perhaps a few warning signs could help. As long as people have their auto save turned on they should be fine.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
-Rushing orange lich
-Dividing forces between brown and orange lich
-Giant spider killed white mage
-Death of great mage
-Attempting to hold ground against steelclad spam by purple masked dwarf

sabalzen
Posts: 25
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 12:50 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by sabalzen » April 4th, 2009, 1:07 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy 1.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8, and by the sounds of some of the other reports, I'd have found it a 10 if I'd kept going. Most definitely not 'easy' on 'easy' setting. Much harder than all the other scenarios in the campaign.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
The overall objective was clear enough, but there were no obvious clues as to what to do next as I went through the scenario. I imagine I was suppose to feel lost and frustrated, and I did.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Can't say, didn't find much dialog or storyline.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Finding enough time and motivation to actually finish, which I didn't. I gave up after 100 or so moves with no end in sight.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2. Sorry, I found it very tedious wading through an endless stream of masked dwarves. I'd enjoyed the campaign up until here, it's one of the better ones, for sure.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe provide more gold or villages so that you can keep churning out troops and explore the cave system much faster?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
There is no way I'm restarting the scenario.

Benefuchs
Posts: 54
Joined: February 24th, 2009, 9:40 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by Benefuchs » April 7th, 2009, 1:02 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
1.4.7 , medium
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4 Having enough gold, many L3 units and two healers, it wasn't very difficult.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Well, the last goal was clear, but how to get there?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
it wasn't much dialog; what the prisoners said was well done, but the things about the doors and the teleport runes was less clear
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Wraith ambushes I didn't see coming. And the spiders NE were challenging, as it took long to move a healer and the rest of the army there.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3, I just found it much too long. Most of the time I had three lords/sentinels blocking the tunnel and fighting while some others were healed in the back. So there was nothing for me to do but the replacement, for many turns against many rather weak enemys.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would split it into two or even three separate scenarios. Or maybe just less dwarvish enemys, because fighting against the own race is not that interesting.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Losing a mage in an ambush of shadows. I couldn't really help it, but lost the other one after reloading... It was rather in the end of the scenario, so it was no really big deal.
(9)Sorry, I don't know WML.

starfury
Posts: 11
Joined: April 21st, 2008, 10:19 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by starfury » April 12th, 2009, 6:34 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Normal, 1.6.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7 - Difficult at times to keep all the characters alive while fighting the numerically superior enemy.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear. However for the next scenario, which doesn't have it's own thread, I found the ending lacking. The story wraps up nicely for Aiglondur, but that's only half the story. We don't hear anything about what happens to the Hammer of Thursagan either in this scenario or the epilogue. While I understand that the specifics are probably intentionally left open ended, it would be nice to at least have a line or two saying Angarthing is going to study the hammer or something along those lines to basically tie up the loose ends introduced in the second scenario.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Overextending my forces. I'll say more about this in the following answers.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 - The long dungeon crawl is different from many Wesnoth scenarios and a little unexpected. The map is well designed, with plenty of areas for you to defend against the hordes of enemies.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would recommend adding the option to not break down the second set of gates immediately after stepping next to them. Perhaps someone would suggest that we should focus on the enemy at hand first. The reason for this is the answer to (8).

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Basically a combination of two things: I sent Aiglondur down the passage from the spider cave, and I split up my forces going through the first gate and opened the second gate too early. This meant I didn't have enough troops to hold back the troops on the other side of the second gate, nor did I have enough troops to protect injured troops against the skirmishing undead. Meanwhile, the forces heading down from the spider cave were slowed down by a non-quick white mage and couldn't effectively press the attack. Aiglondur going down the spider cave is significant since this would have been less of a problem if he had been with the units at the first gate and had the opportunity to recruit more units there. I'm not sure if I actually had the gold for this though, since I may still have been in debt, or not had money for more than a few units.

sabalzen
Posts: 25
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 12:50 pm

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by sabalzen » April 28th, 2009, 12:11 pm

OK, so I lied, I did restart the scenario, or at least the whole campaign. And seeing as this time I made it all the way to the end, I'll re-review:

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy 1.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
The overall objective was clear enough, but I still feel that more clues as to what's going on would have made progress clearer and the whole experience more interesting.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Fairly minimal for such a long scenario. The ending was OK, but as another pointed out, the fate of the Hammer was left unresolved.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None, given enough patience. This time through, knowing I'd need them, I'd stockpiled loads of level 3s, and recalled the lot in the first chamber. 207 turns later, I took down the lich, with my gold reserves standing at -3510 :)
264 kills, 5 losses. (How come Turuk had nearly a hundred fewer baddies to plough through when playing on Challenging?)
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. Still overly tedious (much less fun than the similarly huge cave scenarios in Northern Rebirth), and less fun than all the other scenarios in this campaign, which I did enjoy overall.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I'd break it into at least two separate scenarios, and provide more interest by adding sub-plots or side-quests.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No, even the nightstalkers only took out non-essential units, fortunately.

User avatar
Turuk
Sithslayer
Posts: 5283
Joined: February 28th, 2007, 8:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Scenario Review: THoT 12 - The Underlevels

Post by Turuk » April 28th, 2009, 1:29 pm

sabalzen wrote:None, given enough patience. This time through, knowing I'd need them, I'd stockpiled loads of level 3s, and recalled the lot in the first chamber. 207 turns later, I took down the lich, with my gold reserves standing at -3510
264 kills, 5 losses. (How come Turuk had nearly a hundred fewer baddies to plough through when playing on Challenging?)
Probably because I finished 104 turns sooner, so there was less enemies recruited. ;)
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

Post Reply