Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

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Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by Content Feedback » March 10th, 2008, 10:58 pm

High Pass is the 6th scenario of The Hammer of Thursagan.

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
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AI
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by AI » March 11th, 2008, 12:08 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
easiest one
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very clear, just get to the other side
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear, you'll get snowed in if you don't get out
however, I missed the archmage in this scenario, and even though I never got him, people in later scenarios keep referring to him, which was rather confusing until I looked at the WML
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
none, really
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
not sure
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
no
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
no problems

Einar
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by Einar » September 4th, 2008, 1:46 pm

One minor problem with it: The house where Ratheln is hiding looks identical to the others - I played this on medium, and found it pretty easy to get to the end, and then in the next scenario was terribly confused because the mage school head was talking about a wizard coming with me, when I had never found him. It felt like I was missing a scenario.

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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by AI » September 5th, 2008, 5:18 pm

He shows up on his own on turn 12, but you can finish before then. I've reported this to ESR and he fixed it in trunk, so the bug'll be gone in 1.5.4.

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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by Turuk » January 11th, 2009, 10:55 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Lord (Challenging) 1.5.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. Gryphons can pick off an injured unit if you are not careful, but only two of them means they are easy to pick off. The spawns are good to slow you up really (I know that is the point) more than hurt you.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good, I like the dialogue about the irony of the great mage freezing to death.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Getting to the end as fast as possible, I got hung up killing off some ogres. I overestimated how long it would take stumpy little legs to reach the end of the pass.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. Nothing special, but the spawns make for an interesting running battle and it does a good job again of simulating their travel.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Good as is, maybe a bit more enemies rushing your flanks to add to the sense of a running battle.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Nope

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Seems alright to me.
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by zaimoni » May 19th, 2009, 8:16 pm

Mythological wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy [Wesnoth 1.6.2]
Mythological wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
Mythological wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Transparent.
Mythological wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Reasonable.
Mythological wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Maintaining an adequate Zone of Control screen to handle the gryphons, at least after turn 2. One of the attempts got zugzwanged by wolves on turn 2, although I'm pretty sure that I bungled the manuevering for that replay.
Mythological wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7.
Mythological wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I don't understand the scenario well enough. I don't think it should be routine to dispose of the Gryphon leader, although without testing the scenario on Hard I can't say whether that is a real problem or not.
Mythological wrote:(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No.
Mythological wrote:(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
The WML is clear and well-commented.

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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by cph » May 8th, 2010, 7:12 pm

(1) Lord, 1.8.1.
(2) 5
(3) Clear.
(4) Good.
(5) It's pretty frantic - wolves coming at you all the time, tough enemies like trolls and gryphons, and your force is small so the gryphons can easily circle to attack your weakest unit. My force got pretty strung out due to racing my leader ahead while other units tried to clear up injured enemies.
(6) 6
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(8) No, but it was very close - the wizard was down to ~2 HP on two consecutive turns.

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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by Maiklas3000 » July 23rd, 2010, 9:26 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
hard; 1.8.3 (under Windows 7, 64-bit)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9.9, the hardest scenario of any mainline campaign (see #5 below.)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Okay.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Teleporting ogres and wolf packs make it literally impossible to win unless you get lucky and don't get many teleporting wolf packs. Normally, wolf pack after wolf pack will teleport on top of you. They don't run in. They don't care about ZOC. They teleport. And there are dozens of them. They ZOC lock you, so there's no way you can get to the objective hex within the turn limit. Game over, man.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Teleportation should be reserved for silver mages, not stupid ogres and wolves.

At the start of my turn 6:
Image

At the end of my turn 6:
Image

(During the replay, I pressed the single arrow button after the first screenshot, so the second screenshot is after my turn, not the enemy's.)

Where the hell did the ogre come from?! Now, what makes this more confusing is that actually he was there at the start of my turn 6, but doesn't show up in the replay. But he was nowhere to be seen on turn 5. He teleported to that location! That hex is ZOC locked by my units. It's impossible for a unit to appear there even out of the shroud without using teleportation or skirmishing ability. And he's just your garden variety ogre, quick-resilient to be exact.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Teleporting wolf packs. After a few attempts, I got only teleporting ogres, which I could handle.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
It says in the comments that if the mage dies, you lose the scenario, but the game objectives never say that. I would change the game objectives (after he appears) to be consistent with the comments. Maybe the dialog could be adjusted to make it more of a solemn promise to get him out of the mountains alive. "I give you my word." And then when he dies he can say, "You gave me your word!"
Attachments
THoT-High_Pass_replay.gz
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monochromatic
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by monochromatic » July 24th, 2010, 11:32 pm

Mythological wrote:High Pass is the 6th scenario of The Hammer of Thursagan.

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Normal 1.8.3
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 - harder than you think, you need to plan how to move or you may be swarmed by trolls and ogres.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear, somewhat. Probably because of the shroud (or fog, I forget)
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Nothing special.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Making it through the scenario with a handful of units.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4 - kind of a let down after Invaders.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Don't really know. But something needs to be spiced up in this level.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Bad planning at start. Restarted then everything went fine.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Didn't check.

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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by Thrash » July 29th, 2010, 4:56 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.8.3, Medium, 268 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4 (hardest part being Gryphons and wounded units).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Reach sign post.

Though I agree with others that finding the mage isn't obvious.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

"hut near the top of the pass" - first time I played, it was not at all clear to me which village that was. (Second time, attached replay, I admit I knew and sent my Gyphon Master right to it.)

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Gryphons getting to wounded units.

Having to look hard at the start of each turn for new monsters - I like the idea, but I had a hard time picking them out against the mountains, so I had to start each turn carefully scanning the map.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Good as it is. Perhaps add a bit of dialog when monsters appear to give player a heads up.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

First time I under-recalled and then got bogged down and ran out of time. I thought it was going to be more of a running scenario.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

Very nicely commented.
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THoT-High_Pass_replay.gz
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by Maiklas3000 » August 13th, 2010, 9:19 pm

Try this challenge. Modify The High Pass' WML so that it adds only wolves (no ogres or trolls.) You'll be able to figure it out, even if you don't speak WML. However, you might need to first change the security settings of the file. Then load LoW-The High Pass.gz, so it will start with your units you had then. Then spend a maximum of 73 gold and remember that the turn limit is 12 on hard. See if you can beat that. That's the hell I went through on one attempt. I think it recruited one troll for me, but that probably only made it harder.

Here's a replay with the scenario file modified to only add wolves. Note the teleporting wolves, which would have landed right on top of my troops had I been on pace to get to the signpost. Why not add the wolves on the path but far away, so that they run in naturally?

Edit: Although I lost due to death of the mage, note that the leader would not have reached the signpost in time, so that's really the main problem.
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by turin » August 17th, 2010, 9:27 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Hard 1.9+svn

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6. Possible to lose through sloppy playing (as I did), but not really hard.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Quite.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Not bad. The mage trapped in the pass was... amusing, I guess.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Making the right recruitment choices. The key to this campaign generally seems to be recognizing whether to get high level units or low levels, and how much of your total gold to spend.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. Nothing exceptional about it, nothing wrong with it really.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Have some more fun gimmicks. Maybe an item or two. (Does anything happen if you kill the gryphon?)

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Recruiting too many low-level units the first attempt.
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by santosis » October 12th, 2010, 2:21 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear- Move to the end.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Hey, look what I found. A bad ass mage.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I spent all of my gold recruiting one keep's worth of troops. I moved through the mountains (terrain advantage was pretty much the only chance I had given numbers).

I finished the scenario on turn 13/18 with -6 gold. I'll carry 27 gold into the next scenario. I'm still feeling pretty poor.

I eventually made it through without taking any casualties, but I had to restart several times. Boo randomly appearing monsters.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4 - The random monsters were really frustrating. Its not a mechanic I have seen before, and it doesn't make any sense.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
No magic wolves and trolls. Have a base, let me know where they are coming from.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Random monsters.

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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by Yrth » November 9th, 2010, 8:34 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Hard, 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5, if you don´t kwow the scenario, then you may advance too slow in order to protect your leader
2, if you know you can send the leader ahead more or less unharmed

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good plot and the mage is a nice topping up

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Advancing too slow

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Getting a special reward killing the griffon leader

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Advancing too slow

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
...

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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by BubbleScreen » February 6th, 2011, 2:12 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.8.5
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 in the early going, then 1 thanks to the AI being silly.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Fine, but you should make the mage obvious or have him pop out or something.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
We need an explanation for the Ogres and Wolves and Gryphons that infest these mountains, who suicidally attack well-armed Dwarves in concert and never fight each other. Makes no sense. And why there's a Gryphon sitting in a castle of all places.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Protecting my troops from marauding Gryphons.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1 - allow me to explain:
Besides my comments in (4), it's just silly right now. The real fight and challenge is fending off the Gryphons and whatnot in the early going. Then Aiglondur pirouettes his way across the board untouched. And the wolves back off from my troops.

Frankly, I don't know how I'd do it if I had to walk everyone across the board. The wolves spawn pretty fast, and as Maiklas says, they don't do it in a sensible manner.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I really appreciate wanting to give us different challenges, presenting us with different enemies, but this needs to be overhauled, from a tactical and a dialog standpoint. See my dialogue suggestions, and Maiklas' comments.

There should be incentive for Aiglondur to bring his retinue with him, and also it is more realistic. But then you have to make it easier for the party to traverse the pass. Not that there's a ton of incentive to stick to the road at this point. And make the spawns less silly.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No

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