Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

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baiy
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by baiy » September 5th, 2010, 8:00 pm

Mythological wrote:(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.6.5 easy. with 283 gold at the beginning I play games just for fun...
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
definitely 10. It is the hardest scenario I had ever met. I tried several times and finally got a narrow escape, with heavy loss of my units. There might be tricks for this level but I don't know.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
It's clear in the beginning but one might be doubt the possibility to survive from this level
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's clear but not interesting, rather it gives one feeling of hopeless. You have all enemy but no friend. Your sister wants to kill you, as other human beings and the undeads of Volk. Poor Malin!
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?scenarios
One must act very fast to achieve the victory. The enemy is really overwhelming and they can move very fast. Kill volk as soon as possible and get the book and distribute your forces to slow down the enemy(prevent them from get close to the unit with book). Some one must be sacrifice in this battle...
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 not fun but tragic, that's ok.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
If the player can do something to rope one of the hostile forces, that seems better(once you kill volk you can control his spirit and units .e.g).
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
nothing specially.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
no idea
Attachments
DID-孤身一人_游戏录像.gz
the record of Alone_at_Last. Really difficult even in easy level for me(I am not a sophisticated player)
(115.81 KiB) Downloaded 276 times

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Kraus
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by Kraus » September 21st, 2010, 9:14 am

Hi.

I've been bashing this all night yesterday without getting anywhere. Playing 1.9.1. challenging, with little to no real problems (a fair challenge, however) with earlier scenarios. Still haven't gotten through even Volk.

The scenario needs a major rebalancing. If most of people had to rely on actually flying to Dela's keep hex (implying that they actually knew precisely what is going to happen) before she arrived, it tells something of a way too difficult scenario. To the very end of the first try I believed I should be losing this scenario.

The idea of scenarios is, if I've gotten it right, that the player is having fun, and despite major surprises it can be overcome. This one cannot. I mean, I played Northern Rebirth on challenging, and when the whole river turned into ghouls I flipped - but did overcome them eventually on a single try. The scenario plot is great. I actually gasped - twice - when the armies swarmed out, and that's a good thing, but once I saw their recruits I knew it was game over. I really tried it, though. Never prevailed.

Needing to know a, kind of, abusive tactic and what kind of a surprise and when the scenario is going to throw at you is not good playing skills, and even though I wouldn't say I'm an expert, I have played campaigns on challenging before.

Challenging or hard shouldn't mean that you have to abuse the game mechanics and scenario. It's a great addition to the campaign, but way over the top.
"Oh, to the hades with the manners - he's a complete [censored], and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
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Calza
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by Calza » September 21st, 2010, 10:48 pm

I just completed the scenario on Normal, it deserves some good balancing.

First of all, I agree with the previous posters: if the paladins arrive earlier, the scenario is easier. Indeed you want to hold Volk's army near the paladin camp until the camp spawns to make Volk battle the good guys.

Second, Dela is way too strong and cannot be killed, that's unfair and unexplicable. I had to put some troops on some of its castle hexes to prevent her from recruiting too much.

Third, also the leader of the paladins has too much gold. If the *whole* army of Volk is not directed against the paladins, you're lost.

I played the scenario some time ago on 1.6.5 and I found it definitely easier, I don't know if it was changed in the meanwhile or if I was just lucky...

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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by zookeeper » September 21st, 2010, 11:41 pm

Noted. Re-balancing coming in the next version(s).

santosis
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by santosis » October 14th, 2010, 3:52 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Challenging (medium) 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 - There go most of my level 3 units.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Solid.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I had defeated Volk and his army right as the paladins arrived. Getting back to the castle with the book without getting completely stomped by the paladins was impossible. I lost 2 level 3's, and don't like my prospects for the next scenario...

I finished in 13 rounds with -72 gold.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 - a bit frustrating, since I don't have enough gold to recruit meat shields.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
A few to figure out how many sacrifices I had to make to get back to the castle.

rekuu
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by rekuu » October 25th, 2010, 4:50 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
easy then normal, 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
hard. 8ish.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
i was upset with the main character's choice to attack his only friend, but it was indeed interesting and clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
the paladins hit very hard and cant be outrun. i ended up using a bunch of level 1 units to stall them down south while my main team got the book and ran. even a level 0 bat can stall a paladin if he stops to kill it =p.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
like, 10.2. i registered just to review this level.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
make my teacher say something kind of sinister to set me off- justify my turning traitor a little bit.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
el oh el

dsa
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by dsa » December 20th, 2010, 1:15 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard, 1.8.5. I know this scenario was rebalanced, but maybe this comment is still somehow relevant

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7, at first I tried a slow-play strategy from the walkthrough, to wait until the other forces arrive, which didn't work out for me. So I decided to try a direct assault. I recruited some Corpses and Bats for some distraction, while my elite units attacked and killed the leader. I think it also helped, that Darken Volk was still a lvl 2 unit. With this tactic I could finish by turn 11, only losing two Wraiths, which is okay since the next scenario is quite easy. The Paladins were occupied with taking cities and didn't attack me and Dela didn't even arrive.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Bringing back the book should be included in the objective.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The comment about Dela at the end, that she wouldn't take her troops so far from the city, is a bit surprising, if Dela never arrived.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The pressure of time to avoid a clash with the human forces.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would find it interesting, if Darken Volk becomes a Lich with the power of the book.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
One restart to change my strategy.

Doopliss
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by Doopliss » February 14th, 2011, 6:17 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal (challenging), 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9. Even Volk alone was completely overwhelming compared to previous stages.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not so clear. I expected the mission to end once I killed Volk, and died horribly when it didn't.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Not a fan at all. Volk swipes the book away while the main character is suspicious, and the yelling back and forth seemed a bit awkward.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Underestimating the opponent and thinking my usual ghost-squad had it covered. Also, you know, the hordes of enemies.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. Barring the unpleasant surprises, it's a good kind of hard. Not sure what kind of horrors would happen if I took longer than Evening 2 to kill Volk, though.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Let ghosts carry the book.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I was royally-clobbered on my first attempt before I summoned two keeps' worth of skeletons as backup. Armed with the knowledge that my general had to pick up the book, the second attempt went significantly better.

Kimnor
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by Kimnor » February 22nd, 2011, 6:19 pm

My experience is very similar to what DSA posted.

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Easy, 1.8.5.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 I completely restarted at turn 1 more than once to try different tactics.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
I knew the objectives because I read the walk-through before I tried it. However the strategies in walk-through didn't work for me and it was incorrect about being able to stop Dela from recruiting.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Passable but not great. I don't like how the narrator speaks in 3rd person present tense instead of past tense.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Getting a walking unit to Volken to carry the book and back to the keep before serious engagement with the Wesnothians.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
My first strategy (running to the north) failed. My second attempt (trying to draw Volken's troops into a southern engagement with the paladins) also failed. Finally, I tried rushing Volken, grabbing the book, and running before the advancing Wesnothians. This worked, but only with saving and reloading for some of the combats.

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GagarinGambit
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by GagarinGambit » March 2nd, 2011, 3:01 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard 1.8.4 (my distribution hasn't shipped 1.8.5 to the repositories, however seeing that this scenario was modified in 1.8.5, I replaced the scenario file with the one found in 1.8.5)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9, extremely difficult. I had to play 3 times before finding a winning strategy, and even then I was barely able to make it and I lost most of my high level units. I even had to use the save-reload cheat a few times.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Hey, that's some really good dialogue! The DiD dialogue stands out in general - there's a decent story and characters with distinct personalities, without being bloated enough to distract you from the game play.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Hmm... everything? OK... 1. Finding a strategy that works (eg defensive play & village capturing leads to certain failure) 2. Killing Darken before the paladin arrives 3. Hold back the paladins long enough to bring the book back, without losing your entire army

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. I enjoy a challenge, but not to this extend.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make it easier; for instance, don't spawn two fresh paladins together with Cadaeus. It's still very difficult, and I suppose before 1.8.5 it was near impossible.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Cadaeus arriving and not being close to getting the book.

Note:
As of 1.8.5, the walkthrough and the strategies proposed earlier seem to be outdated. For instance, I tried to bind my time, capture villages with bats, and let Darken fight the paladins and Parthyns; it doesn't work, Darken seems bound to attack my troops, even when the paladins are charging against him. It was suggested to avoid combat, but I see that now you need to play aggressively in order to win. The strategy that does work is moving fast against Darken, defeating him before the paladins arrive, make a stand in Darken's castle and delay the paladin march, while a single unit is moving the book back to your castle. See the attached replay for this strategy.
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DID-Alone_at_Last_replay.gz
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monochromatic
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by monochromatic » March 2nd, 2011, 6:31 pm

Tip: Let Darken's forces battle with Casadeus's. If the battle goes correctly, both of them will be ripe for the picking and you will only have to deal with Dela, who isn't much trouble.

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GagarinGambit
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by GagarinGambit » March 3rd, 2011, 1:26 am

elvish_sovereign wrote:Tip: Let Darken's forces battle with Casadeus's. If the battle goes correctly, both of them will be ripe for the picking and you will only have to deal with Dela, who isn't much trouble.
I suppose this would work if you're using the run to the (northern western) hills strategy, but that's the only one I didn't try, so I really don't know. I tried to distract Darken in order to achieve this (capture southern villages), to no avail; quickly defeating Darken is the only strategy I know it can work for certain.

In any case, the fact that people use completely different game approaches in order to succeed speaks highly of this campaign :) Here you are the one you is picking the game style, not the campaign designer!
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TheCripple
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by TheCripple » March 19th, 2011, 4:00 am

1) Challenging
2) 8. This was easily the hardest level I've played, and I lost a lot of veterans, which was completely acceptable given levels 11 and 12. However, difficult as it was, there are allegedly more difficult campaigns I haven't played.
3) It was extremely clear.
4) The dialogue is good overall, though the sister could have had somewhat better lines.
5) Getting the book back to base was the hardest part. I took Volk out, discovered that Spectres couldn't carry the book, and had to send in a draug and cover him with my squadron of ghosts while holding off paladins and swordsmen. That said, it was very fun, challenging as it was.
6) 10. I absolutely loved this scenario, largely because of its difficulty. There is a belief that you are on the brink of losing through the entire scenario, from beginning to end, and this belief was largely responsible for the fun.
7) Moving your starting position a hex away from Volk's might prevent losing too many troops before everyone else starts showing up. Moreover I would prefer to know beforehand if certain characters were even possible to hit.
VIII) I had to go back a few turns occasionally, mostly due to inaccurate estimation of the relative strengths of belligerent forces.

Concerning strategy, I beat this without positioning to take into account surprises. It is certainly doable, if extremely difficult at times.

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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by Groggy_Dice » May 6th, 2011, 7:10 am

After initially being stalemated when I played this scenario, I was able to go back several turns to a key turn and win. I was surprised, reading this feedback forum, that none of the winning strategies that have been brought up appear to include the one I used. Basically, I rolled back to the turn that Darken Volk charged south out of his keep against the paladin, and sacrificed a bat to bait him into charging west instead, so that he would be killed closer to the main body of my army than the paladin's.

Because my trick hasn't been suggested here before, I'm including a replay. For comparison purposes, I've also attached the last turn of my original play, before I decided that I needed to go back to turn 8.

Since a number of winning strategies mentioned here rely on foreknowledge (squatting on Dela's keep hex, drawing Volk's army southwards to set them up to fight the paladin, etc.), let me say that I knew going in that Dela was going to return in this scenario, and I could see from the status table that there was a fourth force, but I didn't know when or where they would show up. My initial thinking was that while these armies probably wouldn't be friendly to Volk, either, I didn't expect to be able to avoid fighting Volk. So my thinking was that I should try to crush Volk as quickly as possible to avoid a three-front war, and perhaps kill him and win before they showed up.

Although this was my first time through this campaign, I did benefit from repeat play in a key respect. The first time I got through the "A Small Favor" scenarios, I limped out with just a few survivors. I started two turns of "Alone," before deciding that I'd used so much save-loading to snatch (pyrrhic) victory from defeat in "Favor," that my win there lacked legitimacy. I ended up replaying "Favor," rethinking my strategy, this time coming out stronger rather than weaker than I had gone in, though with less bonus gold. Whether I could have made up for my original recall list with a few extra recruits, I can't say.
DID-Alone_at_Last_replay.gz
(45.96 KiB) Downloaded 235 times
DID-Alone_at_Last-Auto-Save46.gz
(93.68 KiB) Downloaded 224 times
(1) Difficulty level/game version? 1.8.4, Hard (Summoner)

(2) Difficult (1-10) 7 this time, but under different circumstances could have been much harder.

(3) Clear objectives? Not very, actually. Players should be told from the beginning that to "get the book" they will have to pick the book up and carry it back to the castle, not just kill Darken Volk. (I also thought the objectives should have continued to remind players that bats and ghosts can't carry the book, just in case they weren't paying close attention.) This is the sort of thing that makes people wonder if designers/developers bother to read these feedback forums. Rewriting the objectives isn't the sort of change that requires extensive playtesting, and how long have people been complaining about this?

(4) Dialog/storyline? Like some other commenters, I thought that Malin's transition to wanting the book so badly that he was willing to fight for it could have been more developed. Perhaps have him infer that the book was never really stolen from Volk, so Volk had no stronger claim on it than Malin.

(5) Major challenges? Definitely the paladin and his high base income. I was able to destroy Volk's army and Dela's, but taking out an enemy that kept spamming recruits throughout the game proved to be beyond my ability. In theory, Dela had a higher income in "Return," but she initially had to face the orcs as well, and held fewer villages, making her effective income lower.

(6) Fun (1-10) 6 at first, 8 when I got the satisfaction of "figuring it out."

(7) Any changes? Since I was able to get through the scenario, I don't really need any changes. (Originally, when I was driven into the mountains, I would have appreciated a village in the mountains for healing.) However, I will comment on some of the changes that have been suggested. For instance, some have suggested forcing Volk to stay in his keep. While I was also frustrated when Volk suicidally charged out, the key to my victory was finding a way to turn this to my advantage. So this change would have made things harder, not easier, for me.

Apparently, Volk's starting gold has been reduced on lesser difficulties, though this didn't affect me. This has drawn complaints from those whose strategy depends on using Volk to weaken the paladin. Although this wasn't my strategy, I agree that it doesn't address what fundamentally makes this scenario so difficult, which is not Volk, but the paladin's high income.

Also, some are arguing over whether the paladin arriving earlier or later is easier. Obviously, the timing was "just right" for me. A turn later probably would have been a bit easier for me, but I do think I benefited from the key action taking place at night. I probably could have handled a turn earlier, though it would have made things more difficult.

(8) Reload/restart? As I mentioned, I had to go back to turn 8. I believe that the replay is otherwise "clean" (except that on the last turn, when I found out that Malin only had to reach any castle hex, not the keep, I reloaded and had everyone else attack for XP). Originally, when I was in the mountains, I lost a specter to a mage while figuring out the "rules" for when the paladin's units would attack me. My decision to reload was based not only on a reluctance to accept the loss, but a belief that any major losses at that point would make the game unwinnable. I also had to do a couple of reloads to make a major night attack to take out the mage of light and a white mage work.*

* In my defense on that one, however, nightstalk seemed to be broken in this scenario. After turns of passivity, the white mage suddenly moved to where I had a nightgaunt positioned for the attack. Later, after reading the feedback, I decided to play a little more with my original game. One idea I was going to try out was to stage my nightgaunts in the mountains by the cave, attract as much of the paladin's army to the northwest as possible, then rush across the south during the night, and hope that there weren't enough units around to stop me once dawn revealed my nightstalkers. (I didn't expect this to work, mind you, but I thought I'd try it.) As soon as the nightgaunts broke out of the mountains, EVERYBODY in the other two armies came rushing south, despite it being night. The enemy clearly "saw" the nightgaunts and headed straight towards them, even though the "Ambushed!" message came up when they made contact. I didn't notice anything in the scenario config file that looked likely to cause this, but I don't know WML and I'm not a programmer.

(9) WML? Not a programmer.
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podbelski
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 10 - Alone at Last

Post by podbelski » July 9th, 2011, 7:41 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.6, Hard, 303gp, no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
another scenario which looks almost impossible to win. Then I've found how to lure the whole Volk's army to the south (Malin helps), it felt like an "8" b/c I lost a few experienced ghosts/skeletons, and overall it was close.

The last attempt I recruited a swarm of bats which did it's job amazingly, and a small killer team went to the north. No tough fights, I guess it went like no more than "7", probably just "6"

Finished in turn 12/24, lost 15 cannon-fodder units, killed 11.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
luring Volk's forces to the south... well, making everything to work properly. Great I had a quick necromancer, who grabbed the book.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, I like it a lot

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
great as is
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