Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Feedback for the mainline campaign Descent into Darkness.

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Maiklas3000
Posts: 532
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by Maiklas3000 » July 31st, 2010, 4:22 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Difficult (hard); 1.8.3; starting gold about 102

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 to win, 9 to win without horrendous losses

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Semi-clear. Who needs to get to the trap door? Malin didn't say or do anything when he stood on it.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good.

Nitpick:
"Note: Only the units you recruit now will be available to you once inside."
Plus any Walking Corpses that you may gain along the way.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The first thing I had to do was to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins. You see, my only promoted units were two Shadows and a Bone Shooter, and I had minimum gold. So, I recruited a Vampire Bat army (plus a couple of Ghosts.)

I had to learn how LOS works and work to sneak in as close as possible.

I tried to use quick bats to block in the Silver Mage, so that he wouldn't fry one of my Shadows after he was done assassinating the commander, but I came up one hex short and so one Shadow died. I wonder if it's still possible to kill a guard without him alerting the rest. Then I might have been able to get my bats close enough.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. I like it.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None, except that Malin should be able to find the trap door. I think he did on one of my attempts, just not on another.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Several failed attempts and restarts from turn 1.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
Very good.

Note: If you try the replay below, it will probably come up as corrupt, complaining about the gold. You see, the replay starts with 88 gold, when I had more like 102 gold. Just check "ignore all" and then you can continue the replay.
Attachments
DID-A_Small_Favor_replay.gz
(70.67 KiB) Downloaded 279 times

Thrash
Posts: 202
Joined: June 25th, 2010, 1:54 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by Thrash » August 12th, 2010, 2:37 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.8.3, Hard, 110 starting gold (minimum I believe).

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

Once I figured out leader assassination, it was fairly easy, call it a 6. The only hard part was the two mages rushing out of fog, but I got lucky and they didn't kill anyone and then were short work for backstabbers. Rest of units couldn't really do enough damage to threaten my Spectres and were short work for necromancers. (I had a nightgaunt, 2 shadows and 2 spectres.)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

One real nitty nit: "Note: Only the units you recruit now will be available to you once inside." - "recruit" should be "recruit or recall". This made me wonder if I shouldn't recall.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Figuring out basic approach, I tried a number of frontal assaults, but with only 5 recalls, they all failed, mainly when the two mages got involved.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Nothing comes to mind.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Several frontal assault attempts before I figured out nightstalking and assassination of leader.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?

Seems fine.

(Attached recall has same problem Maiklas mentions - bogus starting gold.)
Attachments
DID-A_Small_Favor_replay.gz
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santosis
Posts: 74
Joined: October 11th, 2010, 12:04 am

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by santosis » October 14th, 2010, 2:43 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Challenging (medium) 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4 - No troubles

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Solid.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I didn't know how many troops to recruit, so I recruited 2 keeps. I finished in 12/26 turns, with -32 gold. I carry 110 gold over.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 - its cool.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Only one on the last turn, lost Volk.

batoonike
Posts: 75
Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 8:14 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by batoonike » December 3rd, 2010, 8:24 am

1.8.4

At normal difficulty the AI doesnt reqruit units once it discoveres your coming, wich makes this scenario extremely easy and boring. Especially compared to the old version, where it was extremely hard and required enormous amount of planning (unless you abused shadows to kill the reqruiting leader).

dsa
Posts: 58
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Location: Germany

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by dsa » December 20th, 2010, 1:06 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and what version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard, 1.8.5.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5. This scenario is mainly about exploring the map and finding out how the enemy reacts to an attack. After some investigating, it was clear for me, that killing the leader within one turn (with 4 Shadows) is the best option. The enemy killed one Shadow in his turn afterwards, but could not recruit units now and therefore was no problem. The enemy units merely waited and attacked only, if I moved into their attack range.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I didn't understand, why is it nighttime during the whole scenario and found no hint in the dialog about it.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Finding the right strategy.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6, after I killed the leader, it was too easy.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The behavior of the AI is a bit unclear to me. I do not understand why the guards (i.e. the enemy units, who are already there from the beginning) always just wait, until I move in their attack range. Even after they detect one of my units, they just sit and wait, while newly recruited units move and attack my leader.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Several restarts to explore the scenario and find the best strategy.

Doopliss
Posts: 23
Joined: February 9th, 2011, 8:29 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by Doopliss » February 14th, 2011, 5:59 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal (Challenging), 1.8.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2. It's pretty much handed to you.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Quite nice.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None, really.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. A careful approach and well-orchestrated attack reaped big, satisfying dividends.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I forgot that stealthed units become visible when adjacent to enemies. :P

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GagarinGambit
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by GagarinGambit » February 28th, 2011, 10:19 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard, 1.8.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3 (make it inside) 5 (minimize loses). But that's because I had two shadows, so I had all the time in the world to scout and move the rest of my troops near the best passage. See the attached replay for this kind of strategy.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
It's not clear enough where inside is. I had to reload the last turn because I thought the scenario was about to end so I wrongly rushed for experience.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
There's not much dialogue here, but as always it contributes to a solid, interesting story.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Other than figuring out that this scenario is not your standard Wesnoth game, none. However, note that without shadows this should be extremely difficult.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9, it's a different and refreshing approach of Wesnoth.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
A little clearer objective, and perhaps a free shadow for the player (so that it won't be near impossible if you can't recall one).

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I had to restart after a few turns, when I figured out how this scenario works, but I had no trouble with any event.
Attachments
DID-A_Small_Favor_replay.gz
(21.01 KiB) Downloaded 220 times
Linux. Space technology.

podbelski
Posts: 151
Joined: June 7th, 2011, 8:35 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by podbelski » July 5th, 2011, 1:01 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.6, Hard

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
was VERY frustrated trying to break into the manor fighting all the 300gp-worth army. Tried several ways to do it, but they either failed completely, or I sustained "horrendous losses" and was not satisfied with results anyway. The enemy sees where my leaders are despite of fog of war, which only adds to frustration.

Once I realized the easiest way is to assasinate the leader with two shadows it became trivial and boring.

podbelski
Posts: 151
Joined: June 7th, 2011, 8:35 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by podbelski » July 8th, 2011, 10:49 am

Ok, after thinking about it I feel like the scenario is better to be seriously rebuilt. I don't think someone is eager to implement this, but just in case - will share my thoughts.

1) Villages in the yard look strange to me. What's the purpose for them? To let the silver mage teleport making a suicide attack on your leader? They probably model infantry homes, but then the possibility of flagging them with a shadow (noone notice!) looks really out of line. Also, this gives your troops the way to heal, which is again strange and only hurts this scenario. My point is there should be NO villages on the map, probably one or two outside the yard, for the player to flag.

2) A unit survived anywhere on the battlefield automatically transferred to the next scenario, no matter how far it is from the gates. This is again bad from different points, e.g. the heroes even say they quickly shut the gates behind them - so everyone who left behind should be considered killed. I think that only units close enough to heroes should be carried over once we reach the entrance

3) The leader assasination probably should not be an option to deal with guards. This looks meaningless again... the guards sleep in their houses, but after the alarm they still asleep just b/c someone killed their boss! I think the alarm should trigger the direct appearance of enemy troops, not just giving their leader a gold boost.

4) The spot where the reinforcements appear is placed badly. It should be not that close to the entrance, so the player has an option to somehow avoid/delay a major fight. Ideally, it should look like they say - "once we are spotted, we have to run" or smth like that. Currently you have to "run" through the main force, which sucks IMO. Instead of a "castle" you can place village pictures modelling infantry homes (cannot be flagged etc, just images), and after the alarm a troop appears out of each house.

5) The fog should be turned on for the enemies, so it will be possible to make a fake attack and sneak with your main force. Currently they clearly see where your leaders are and run straight to kill them, even if the alarm was triggered at the opposite side of the yard and your leaders hiding in the forest somewhere else. The enemies must either run to the spotted "undead coming out of the forest" or take defensive positions inside the yard, and behave accordingly to the situation.

6) minor one, but might be fun: first 5-6 turns should be dusk, only then the night falls. Also, there probably should be a clear notification to a player that day/night cycle is non-standard

7) Still don't get why we have to reach the trapdoor. The entrance should be a normal door, and after that... I'll continue in the next scenario


So, in short the map must have the possibility of playing it different ways, and should look more realistic I'd say. To achieve this some serious correction and rebalancing is required (as well as starting gold, turns limit etc).
Last edited by podbelski on July 8th, 2011, 3:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ninjuri
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by Ninjuri » May 23rd, 2012, 6:16 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Mostly clear, the manor was easy to spot but how exactly to approach was not. I studies the guard towers which each had a spearmen, and there were no breaks in the perimeter for me to sneak through. My thought was then that i had to force my way in through an opening i create myself, so i fought with the two northern-most spearmen, who then called the guards, which i killed, and then dispatched the mages, before walking into the manor. Two of my units were chilling at the bottom and got in a fight with a random pikeman out of nowhere, one killed it and the other one died.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's keeping my interested, i'm curious about why the book is so important.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Figuring out where to breach and how.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No
Fate is against me.

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Pewskeepski
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by Pewskeepski » April 25th, 2013, 12:05 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Summoner (Difficult), 1.11.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. With only 60 gold at my disposal, it was very difficult.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
It's not clear that you have to move one of them to the trap door.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesting as always!

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
That one Silver Mage, who happens to only be in the hardest difficulty. I'd assassinate the General only to watch him destroy my two Nightgaunts. It was by sheer luck that they both survived the winning replay.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. Frustrating at first, but once I got it right, it was quite enjoyable.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Minimal starting gold appears to be 110 on hard, but I only had 60. If I had a little more it probably would've been more fun.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Lots. A lost a bunch of times due to either Malin or Darken dying.

(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
It's very well commented.
Attachments
DiD-A_Small_Favor_replay.gz
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flammstrudel
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by flammstrudel » May 5th, 2013, 3:56 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.2 Summoner (difficult) – no reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8/10, probably easier if you have shadows/ nightgaunts (I didn't)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Figuring out a good unit composition, coming up with a working path of attack. At first I recruited 1 ghoul, 2 necros, 2 spectres. I tried a frontal attack but the opponent has too many units. After that I tried to be sneaky and launched an attack in the south and positioned my heroes in the northern forest, however the AI didn't dispatch everyone to defend south and I wasn't able to sent Malin&Friend through. Next time I just recruited 3 spectres and 2 wraiths and stomped the whole city into the ground, no units lost (except one WC).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8/10 Well done scenario. The silver mage's sudden arrival out of the fog almost scared me to death.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Good the way it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Failed attempts due to wrong approach.
Attachments
DiD-A_Small_Favor_replay.gz
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devavrata
Posts: 79
Joined: August 30th, 2012, 8:59 pm

Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by devavrata » May 15th, 2013, 11:52 pm

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.3, Easy/Medium/Hard
Content Feedback wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 - I find it difficult to sneak in without getting into battle.
Content Feedback wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
Content Feedback wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's okay. Darken Volk gets his retribution from his apprentice - about getting back some book stolen from him - or so he says. Also, the graphics have a lot of small details, like flowers, wells, training grounds for the knights, etc. I know this question was about storyline, but there seems to be no proper place to speak of the graphics.
Content Feedback wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Playing hide and seek is fun for a change. I think every campaign should get an hide and seek scenario. However this one seems just winnable by hide and seek. You always get noticed before the end - so, I prepared for a full battle. This way is even better because at the end you get the enemy's castle and can use it for recruiting/recalling additional units before entering the manor, which is quite useful because on the next two scenarios you only get the units you carry with you.
Content Feedback wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
Content Feedback wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I can't figure out how to sneak through the guards unnoticed - that is, on hard level. As for easy and medium, I played them quite a long ago. Something about murdering the guard which is just out of sight from his companions - but then, as you approach the entrance to the manor, still there is a dangerous mage guarding it, and the knight is quite near to the entrance. Maybe it makes sense to murder guards until getting close enough to the knight to make an assassination attempt.
Content Feedback wrote:(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No
Content Feedback wrote:(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
-

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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by Maiklas3000 » June 16th, 2014, 10:16 am

(1) Level, version, gold? Hard, 1.11.15, 110 starting gold.
(2) Difficult? (1-10) 3, once you understand the mechanics.
(3) Objectives? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Fine. Could change "recruit" to "recruit or recall" as recommended by a previous review.
(5) Challenges? At first I tried triggering a guard and just fighting the leader's recruits, and I came close to victory, but did not survive. So, next time I decided to steal villages with a couple of Shadows. Since I was doing that, it seemed easy enough to assassinate the enemy leader also, so I did. Then I started triggering guards and killing them one by one. They really should all come running once you trigger the first guard, IMO, though maybe on the next turn, not the same turn that the guard shouts.
(6) Fun? (1-10) 3. Meh. It needs to be changed.
(7) Changes? See #5. If you make the suggested change, then reduce the enemy leader's gold too, or the player will get overwhelmed.
Bug: In the attached replay, you can see a humorous bug, where a Spearman guard abandons his post and retreats. He is not within strike range of my units, but I guess he knows they are there and numerous, and decides to get the hell out of Dodge (but doesn't bother to warn anybody.)
(8) Restarts? One restart from start due to a normal loss. No save-reloads.
Attachments
DiD-A_Small_Favor_replay.gz
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Inky
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 7 - A Small Favor - Part I

Post by Inky » September 28th, 2014, 7:58 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.4, hard, 110 (minimum) starting gold - recalled 3 shadows and 2 wraiths.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9 - very difficult.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
FIne.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Figuring out that assassinating the enemy leader is the only way to go. You only have 5 recalls and I don't think it's enough to kill all those high level units within the turn limit.
Dealing with the silver mage.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, despite the frustrations it's fun to sneak around.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Give the enemy leader less gold so it's not the end of the world if he recruits.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
The first time my assassination failed (needed 3 backstabs out of 9, got only 2) so I had to restart.
My strategy for the silver mage was to first lure it out with my two leaders at the southern edge of the map (which raises the alarm but the human leader doesn't start recruiting yet) then kill it with wraiths + leaders, and then assassinate the enemy leader with shadows on that same turn, using only the hexes that the red mage can't reach.
This way there is no chance of your shadows getting killed by the mages.
Some restarts to figure out what to do, no save loads.

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