Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Feedback for the mainline campaign Descent into Darkness.

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Inky
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by Inky » September 28th, 2014, 6:45 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.4, hard (Summoner), 303 starting gold

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5 - pretty easy if you just go for the signpost and don't try to kill everything. I don't like the strategy of trying to assassinate the leaders as it is luck based and you do not need the gold bonus. The orc leader can kill a shadow in one attack at any time but daytime, and during the day you will be unable to kill him in one turn either, meaning he can kill your shadow next turn. With only 50% defense for your units and the orc leader on 60% it is just too unreliable.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Fine.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Units with fire (archers, goblin pillagers)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, fun to lure units onto the ice, hehe.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
There is still no reason at all to use anything except ghosts. Since you can recruit skeletons there has to be a way to make them useful.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
No restarts / reloads.

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max_torch
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by max_torch » December 23rd, 2014, 2:23 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard 1.12.0
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Well just to use undead is interesting.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Killing the bottom leader while trying not to lose important units.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
none.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yeah it was assassinating the lower leader at the wrong time.
(9) If you know a bit of the Wesnoth Markup Language - do you think that the WML of this scenario is clear and well commented? If not which part would you like to be documented better?
none.
Replay:
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czarkoff
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by czarkoff » May 3rd, 2015, 7:33 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Easy, 1.12.2.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Why mention moving Malin at all?

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The frozen lake was an interesting turn.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Without assassinating the bottom orc leader with Shadows I had hard time with keeping my forces alive.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None. It's good as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
I tried different tactics, and most led to loosing many troops, which I simply don't like.
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shadow12
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by shadow12 » November 20th, 2015, 8:03 am

(1) What difficulty level? Medium, Wesnoth Ver 1.10.5, (iOS not jailbroken, so no way yet to download and see other people's replays). Finished turn 21 with 113 carry over gold.

(2) How difficult? (1-10) 5
(3) How clear? The Objective states to move Malin to the end of the mountain pass, but to win just move him to the signpost or kill all enemy leaders.
(4) Interesting dialog and storyline?
Very interesting! It will be interesting to see where the story about Malin goes. He is someone different than the normal "Knight in Shining Armor" hero we are used to, and I like that about him.

(5) Major challenges?
Not having enough high level ghosts to start with when I tried to defeat both kings right away.

(6) Fun? (1-10)
9, Really fun! I liked having undead on my side, it was a nice change from the norm.
The thin ice was a very creative idea. Is it possible to have a bunch of units fall in at once?
Fun having units that are invisible at night moving around undetected!
I liked the different terrains: the mountains for ghosts to fly over, the ice-covered lake to sink wolves, and the valley passes that make good places for battles.

(7) Changes?
Really good as is!

(8) Reload or restart the scenario?
My First attempt failed. 10 ghosts split into 2 groups to kill each king. I wanted to quickly defeat the kings and it would have worked if I had more wraiths and shadows to recall, but I only had 3.

Second attempt worked better. Recruited 2 ghosts and recalled 2 wraiths and a shadow. Sent this group of 5 ghosts west to the mountains within striking distance of the western king. Waited until the next night and attacked. Lost no ghosts. The king was there all by his little lonesome.

Recalled 2 necrophages, recruited 2 ghouls, one skeleton blade and 2 bats. The skeleton was good at killing and he leveled up to Reverant in no time. I could have used more of him! The bats were able to entertain the northern enemy for awhile, then got themselves swatted. I moved the ground troop to the pass right before the ice lake, taking out enemy units one at a time. Moved all 5 ghosts north and defeated the second king on turn 21. Good fun.
Sometimes life unexpectedly throws a Troll or a nasty Queen Naga in your path.

Entengelaende
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by Entengelaende » June 5th, 2017, 11:36 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on? Hard, 1.12.6
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 7
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Okay
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? Wolf Riders with Net and Torch were quite challenging
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? None
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario? No

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Britannicus
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by Britannicus » June 29th, 2017, 12:33 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Challenging, Version 1.12.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6. At first I tried to kill the leaders, but I didn't commit enough and in the end I almost got close to having the time run out!

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal clear, two clear choices.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

5, not very much dialog, but what little there was was good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Keeping the timer in mind and holding off the Lvl 2 wolf riders. Nasty fellows, especially when you're trying to level skeletons.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8. You have most of the advantages, with ghosts and bats just dominating the map due to rivers and mountains. Great fun.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Can't really think of anything.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Picked a really stupid strategy at first, promptly restarted.
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Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by Konrad2 » October 16th, 2018, 3:45 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Challenging, Version 1.14.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5. The Ice is quite helpful, but you still have to tank at the beginning of the fight.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

5, not very much dialog, but what little there was was good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Keeping the dmg of the Orcs in check.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8. More than one good tactical choice avaible.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Can't really think of anything.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Bad placement at night.
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LordWolfDan
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by LordWolfDan » November 20th, 2018, 9:32 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Pretty clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Very good. I like how this is going. I just wonder how it is going to look like once orcs are killed, what is going to be with Malin?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Trying to avoid poor defense terrains. Plus, I like the physics of ice here, when you stand on it for a while, it breaks soon. You don't see that in every campaign.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- None to think

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

- No

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ElvishMystical0
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by ElvishMystical0 » April 17th, 2019, 6:40 pm

Content Feedback wrote:
March 11th, 2008, 8:30 pm
(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Versions 1.10, 1.12 and 1.14 medium and hard.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Initially an 8 but this drops to a 5 or less when you learn how to play the Undead.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
They were quite clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was okay.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I like this scenario and I like it a lot because it gives you the opportunity to explore and experiment with playing the Undead.

For sure you don't yet have a major weapon against Orcs (Northerners) which are Dark Adepts but then again you're not facing any Troll lines either. Much has been posted about the ice, and also the assassination squads of the Ghost lines. But what if you don't have enough Shadows and Wraiths?

You have bats and you also have the Skeleton lines (or 'bones') and their submerge ability. Skellies cost more than Orcs but they're generally more consistent, especially at night. A couple of skellies and a bat can more than make up for a lack of Shadows and Wraiths in an assassination squad.

However the biggest challenge here was figuring out the different types of terrain and how it works out against the Orcs. This is a really well designed map and it's quite balanced. There's plenty of hills for the Orcs but you also have the ice and the deep water which is favourable to the Undead. You can also easily sneak a couple of skellies and a bat through the southern gap in the mountains.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
I'd give this an 8, because for the first time you start to feel that you're playing the Undead against the Orcs. Sure you can go assassination squads of ghosts and get through the scenario that way but you don't have to. A couple of skellies and bats over the mountains and through the deep water can also make life difficult for the Orcs.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think it's fun enough as it is. It's nice to play the Undead against Northerners and not have Troll Whelps and Orcish Archers coming at you.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Yes. Falling through the ice a few times. Being lured into the hills at night by Orcs also turned this scenario against me. I also learned through Malin that Dark Adept lines are not quite as strong as mages.

Mawmoocn
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by Mawmoocn » May 3rd, 2019, 11:46 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.12.6, Hard, Bat and loyal units only gameplay

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Apparently this is the beginning of Malin’s descent to madness.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Killing both leaders while keeping most bats alive.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

10

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I think it’s fine as it is? well... I think his madness is influenced by his teacher... I’m sad that he falls for madness since his sister is presumably alive. His character is driven by madness because of his teacher. I didn’t feel any semblance of him treasuring his family because he doesn’t think about his probably alive sister, not even once?

The campaign is titled Descent into Darkness, well I guess there’s no way to fight against his madness or fate? Oh well.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Bats dying. I gave up creating a perfect no death play since it’s really hard for me to do.

Mawmoocn
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by Mawmoocn » June 9th, 2019, 3:05 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.14.8 (1.14.7), Hard, Bats and loyal units

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Somehow his teacher knew that they’re Whitefang orcs? Killer of his father?
Mali has no suspicion on how he knew?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Crossing the bridge, killing blue orc leader within 2 turns or die, then somehow going to the green orc leader without losing much hit points, to subdue the orc leader.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No comment

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Blue orc leader killing his teacher!
Spoiler:
Lacking turns to kill all enemies and losing turns due to enemy blockade.
Aggressive leaders making unpredictable actions, needed baits to survive.
Crossing the bridge was very tricky, I lost more than 6 turns trying to kill swarms of enemies that blocked my path, needed to lure bats, at a correct time and place to be able to pass as fast as I could.
Orchish Grunt spam, would be very hard to kill with bats alone.
Orchish Crossbowman would easily kill any bat... except if they’re resilient and leveled.
Goblin Pillagers are dangerous without dread bats... and I don’t have any...
Levelling bats in this map and with few turns, would be very hard without some losses. Levelling bats to dread bats, is nigh impossible without luck.
Bats have no killing power, unless you support them with heavy hitters. Using the "ice" becomes a necessity, because of lack of offensive power.

Initially I gave up killing blue orc leader, as being unlucky would kill you if it takes more than 3 turns. My plan was to wound him enough, that they would retreat to the nearest village, and make him stuck there.

All of the mentioned issues above, would most likely render your turns obsolete.
At this scenario, you definitely need dread bats or hard hitters for the next scenario. Minimum of 2 to contend, otherwise you'll most likely be stuck without any offense.


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white_haired_uncle
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by white_haired_uncle » July 13th, 2019, 11:34 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

1.14.x, where x<7, and 1.14.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10 (in 1.14.7)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

N/A

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I went after the SW hero with ghosts and got slaughtered. Even if I had squeaked it out, I was so far behind on turns I'd never make it to the NE.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

2, and that's only positive because of the ice

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I don't remember this one being all that challenging. I ended up going to the walkthrough page and seeing a comment about how there were going to be changes in 1.14.7, and noticing that scenario 3 was significantly different. I think the problems I had here might have been a result of not being able to level up ghosts in S3.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Not any specific event, other than maybe not having enough recalls and/or gold to recruit an adequate force. I didn't bother with restarting, this was the end of the campaign for me.

Cruduxy
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Re: Scenario Review: DiD 4 - Beginning of the Revenge

Post by Cruduxy » September 14th, 2019, 8:51 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.14.7 Evoker.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Completely clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It is okay. The orcs could use more lines when fighting on ice.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Wasting way too many turns dancing around the breaking ice.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make breaking ice unable to kill skeletons. They can already dive in deep water and resist cold so drowning for them seems like too much. Unlike for orcs and walking corpses (getting stuck underwater with the ice).
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Testing if ice would kill skeletons when it melts :P. Simply couldn't resist testing it.

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